22-250 revisited - varget and 64 grain nosler partition bullet.

[Nandy]

rifle stats:
Savage Barrel take off, seems to be a savage target contour or a varmint contour at least, 1:12 Twist, 22'', shot count unknown. I know the bullet will do better on a 10 twist but until the bonus or irs return come home...
boyds varmint stock, action bedded, tang floating, target recoil lug, accutrigger set to 1 lbs.

Shells:
Remington brass shot no more than 3 times. all have been trimmed to 1.902, neck sized, rcbs competition die, coal 2.102, WLR primer, Nosler Bonded Bullets 64 Grain Spitzer Solid Base.

Reloading
Each load has been manually thrown, each double check with 2 rcbs scales (digital 750 and a beam 505). Im seating .010" from the lands.

A couple of years ago i worked a load for this 22-250 using this same bullet, speed was good (3400+fps), accuracy was acceptable for hunting inside 150 yards BUT I had occasional flyers AND I would have blown primers in occasion which the last made me retire the load.

This year I want to bring the gun back and I am using varget instead of rl-17. I loaded 2 sets of 8 shells starting at 23 grs, used 3 grs increments up to 25.1 grs. I threw each similar load at the same time. Shot them today, this is what I got.

First set:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn215/nandy_temp/20151028_191539.jpg

Chrono stats:
Hi Vel: 2989
Low Vel: 2726
Ave Vel: 2869
Ext Spread: 263
Std Dev: 84

Velocity
2726
2836
2855
2855
2976
2830
2886
2989

I found the speed of shot 4, 5, and 6 a bit disconcerting as it is not what i would have expected and wonder what made those speeds fluctuate like that.

Second set:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn215/nandy_temp/20151028_191606.jpg

Chrono stats:
Hi Vel: 2917
Low Vel: 2688
Ave Vel: 2803
Ext Spread: 229
Std Dev: 71

Velocity Power Factor
2688
2789
2743
2789
2818
2812
2873
2917

although the shots here seem to be a bit out of order too, i would have expected an ascendant speed, not these fluctuations...

I generally set a camera to record the impact order. I forgot to bring my camera and had to use my phone. someone text me while I was going to be ready to start shooting the second set and the recording stopped so I have no idea which bullet is which but they seem to have a common node as you can see similar impacts of shot 3 and 8, however, since I have no video I can correlate those same impacts on set 2 to their appropriate load. I will try to shoot another set on Friday...

Everything that hit 2900+ fps is starting to show cratering on the primers which for me is a bit disheartening since I was hoping to keep the speed up to 3200 fps.
See shell number 5 and 8 on the top row and shell number 8 at lower row.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn215/nandy_temp/20151028_201431.jpg

Here is a close up to both number 8:
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn215/nandy_temp/20151028_201557.jpg

Hodgon reloading data it says that 29.5 grs is starting load for both 63 and 70 gr bullets, max is 34 grs for the 63 gr and 32 is the max for the 70 grain.
Nosler reloading data does not have Varget included for this bullet, it does have varget for the 62 grain and it is starting at the 30 grs.

So I think I should not push past the 25.1 due to the cratering on the primer but I want to gain more speed. I guess that will mean using another powder but now i wonder if those other powders are shooting faster then wouldnt those also show the same signs of pressure? I bought about 5 cans of varget.... sight....

I will recheck my head spacing again but I dont think that is a problem. Im about to change the brass and primer but not sure those could cause those numbers or let me shot a bit hotter... I have some Hornady brass still in the box...

[justinp61]

Just out of curiosity. Why did you start so far below the minimum recommended charge? I could see starting 1gr below but not 6.5. I know for a fact that light charges in a revolver can cause pressure spikes.

[Nandy]

The only report I found online that had the same exact load as me used those numbers. Im glad I did in retrospective as it seems 29 is showing signs. I can probably still go up and see if like you infer, the load being so low caused the problem. IM just worried a bit.

[justinp61]

Some info here, http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/22-250-load-65-gr-sierra-game-kings-139345/. Some very knowledgeable guys here http://forum.accurateshooter.com/.

[Nandy]

thanks!

[justinp61]

No problem. I have a Savage FVSS in 22-250 it shoots 55 grain Sierra 1365s real well. One of these days I'd like to try some 60-65 grain bullets just to see how they shoot out at long distance. I've killed two groundhogs at 446 yards with mine, the only problem I have is that the wind wreaks havoc on it at that range. Good luck with your rifle, finding out what they like is half the fun.

[Nandy]

Agree!!!!

[LHitchcox]

Are you sure you are not using .223 data? My load for the 60 grain Partition in .22-250 is 34.0/varget.

[scooterf79]

I tend to agree with Hitchcox, the charges seem really low to me. I would double check your reloading data. Under charged loads will cause problems as well.
I just glanced pretty quick at some of my manuals. Using varget, and bullets in the 60-65gr range, the MINIMUM charges are in the 28-30 range.
Keep us posted on what find out.
Scooter

[Nandy]

I cant find that forum where I saw the info and who knows, I might have read wrong...
nosler does not list Varget for that bullet, It doe list varget for the 60-62 gr with 30-34 grs being 34grs their most accurate load.

Hodgon list a 63 gr bullet with 29.5-34 grs...

so no matter how I look at these numbers it seem what I was trying is wrong. Hard lesson I guess, glad I did not blew my face off...

Back to the board, I hate to have to undo those shells, I am almost out of primers...

[Nandy]

Update,
I started with a larger dose of varget, from 32 to 34 grs, in the ladder test. The latest ladder test showed 2 strong nodes at 33.5 and 33.8, (if I recall right, I do not have my notes with me right now), with 33.35 printing the best. I set a few triplets loads at .2 grains intervals having 33.5 as my mid point. One more time the test revealed a preference for 33.5 with an average speed is 3297 with a nice .423 group. No signs of pressure.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn215/nandy_temp/20151108_000247.jpg

Im using a carbine 3x nikon scope which pretty much covers my bullseye at 100 yards. With a better scope i am sure I can get a better group and good consistency. I am shooting some other groups tomorrow to cement this load for know. Of course, i will fiddle with the oal to see what I find later on but will call this a successful 250 ydr deer load.

I would like to have better velocity but I will push that once I get my new 9:1 or 10:1 barrel.

Another thing I noticed is that the pockets on those remington shells are loose, too loose for my like. Hornady primer pockets were real tight so i will try to replicate the load on hornady shells....

Thanks for your input!

[big honkin jeep]

Hey man let me help you out a little, that's a .2 3 shot group not .423
Groups are measured center to center
Measure outside to outside at the furthest points and subtract bullet diameter for a proper measurement.
Once you get your load figured out shoot a couple of 5 shot groups and you'll have a much better idea of what kind of accuracy you're getting.
Good luck and enjoy :)

[schnyd112]

I can't argue with your groups, but if you have trouble with varget you wouldn't be the first. My experience has been that it is very inconsistent from pound to pound, even pounds bought from the same lot. I have tried it 3 different times, 6 total lbs, 1# jug, 4# jug, and another 1#.
Each time I loaded up 100 rounds I would get different velocities and need to fine tune to get consistent results. I don't have much experience with 22-250 but shoot .220 swift with slightly higher charges and smaller bullets. Most of my loading was with 55g v-maxs over 36-38g of varget. I started with a good load at 36.5g and 3700 fps. Then bought 4 lbs and had to go to 37.5 grains to get the same velocities. When I loaded my second round from the same 4# jug my groups opened up and I needed to go to 38.2 gr and 3900 fps with the same lot of bullets.
Weekly tests varied in both group size (which could have been me) and velocities. I tried one more pound of it, switched to 52 gr smk's and could not find a consistent load. I moved to imr4064 and even between lots of powder and bullets my pet load has stayed between 37.3-37.5 grains with velocities of 3650-3700 (tel:3650-3700). I used the rest of my varget to send 40g bullets at 4300+ to burn it all up.

[Nandy]

Hey man let me help you out a little, that's a .2 3 shot group not .423
Groups are measured center to center
Measure outside to outside at the furthest points and subtract bullet diameter for a proper measurement.
Once you get your load figured out shoot a couple of 5 shot groups and you'll have a much better idea of what kind of accuracy you're getting.
Good luck and enjoy :)

You know what? I cant believe I forgot to do that.....

schnyd112, I hear you and if I cant nail it down with varget then I will definitely move to another powder.

Thanks!

[justinp61]

A .2 group is great, even if it's a 3 shot group. If I were looking to shoot small groups I'd put a better scope on it, I learned years ago shooting a bow that if I wanted to shoot small I had to aim small.

What are you looking for out of this rifle?

[Nandy]

The scope is definitely being upgraded but not sure yet. Rifle is for deer hunting in SC at close range for neck shots.
Thanks for your advice.

[bythebook]

Nandy I have loaded for a lot of 22-250s and have 3 in my safe now. I can't even estimate how many rounds I have loaded for my 22-250s since 1965 not to mention my Sons and grandsons. I have always ended up going to IMR4064 for 40 to 62 grain bullets, for a lot of those guns 36 gr. of 4064 was the favorite. I have read where some think it is not as stable in hot weather as Varget but I have never noticed that. I never tried heavier than 62 gr. bullets, if I needed heavier I always had a 243 or two around.

[justinp61]

My rifle has a Leupold 6.5-20 with a Varmint Hunters reticle, I really like the fine reticle. Like I said in one of my previous posts this rifle really likes Sierra 1365s, at less than $17 per 100 I do too.

This photo is looking through the scope, the red circle is a dead ground hog, just a touch over 400 yards.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z399/justinp61/marked%20IMG_0399_zpsjxkaiyp6.jpg (http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/justinp61/media/marked%20IMG_0399_zpsjxkaiyp6.jpg.html)

Looking over the rifle to the area in the above photo.
http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z399/justinp61/IMG_0400_zpsmomwejdt.jpg (http://s1187.photobucket.com/user/justinp61/media/IMG_0400_zpsmomwejdt.jpg.html)

[eddiesindian]

looks good.
load up 10.........shoot-em. See what gives. You may have just hit paydirt
For a hunting rifle...this looks great
realistically?...........I think your set. Your not going to be punching paper to try to achieve outstanding 1 hole patterns.
if anything...that pill is seriously hauling ass. wow.......if you get the chance.....Im sure you can place your hit right where you need to at distance.