new savage 11, rough looking barrel

[TrueSavage]

I just got this new savage hog hunter and there are some pretty nasty looking tooling marks in the bore. Is this standard for savage rifles or did I get a lemon? None of my other guns (no savages to compare) have bores like this..

*Drag to a a new tab to view full-size image*

http://i.imgur.com/Pq5Sihx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3nVFi9w.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QmXL75H.jpg

[foxx]

Only one way to find out.

Chances are it's fine. Shoot it and see what you get. I've never heard of a Hog Hunter not shooting better than 1 MOA at 100 yards.

[earl39]

Train tracks are nothing new for a savage barrel. Most shoot some do not. Only one way to find out for sure. They are harder to clean up tho.

[zap]

Don't be concerned. That is typical, and as stated, most savage barrels are good to VERY good shooters. I posted a pic yesterday on a nice group that my " rough" savage barrel shot . After around 50 rounds through mine, when I go to push the first wet patch through, i have to use one hand holding my rifle ,( in my cleaning jig) , and my right hand and my hip pushing on my dewey cleaning rod to get it through, lol !
On my custom barrels, the rod goes through easily, all the time.
But, as rough as that savage barrel is, it shoots great !

[Bolthead]

My .270 barrel looks very similar to that. Like zap says, hard to clean, but shoots good. Seems to get better every time I shoot it. Thought about putting some Tubbs lapping rounds through it, but haven't yet. Planning to change caliber anyway for unrelated reasons. Like foxx says, just "shoot it and see what you get'

[AbitNutz]

Brownells makes a lapping kit that is comprised of JB Bore paste, Kroil and a kind of felt pellet. It works pretty well from my experience. I have used it and I like the results. It may not completely eliminate your train tracks but I think it should help.

[J.Baker]

Contact Savage and send them the photo's. I wouldn't accept or settle for a new rifle with a barrel that looked like that. Machining marks visible under high magnification with a bore scope are normal for an OEM mass production barrel, but marks such as this that are clearly visible to the naked eye and basically look like someone ran a tap into the end of the barrel are clearly excessive and a manufacturing defect. All it will do is collect copper fouling in mass, and the fact that it's right at the muzzle means it will very likely have a negative effect on accuracy.

I know Fred had a .223 barrel on a Model 12 LRPV several years ago that had a similar defect just forward of the chamber and Savage was happy to replace it.

The idea that so many above were so quick to accept this lack of quality control as "normal" is a bit disturbing to say the least.

[barrel-nut]

The idea that so many above were so quick to accept this lack of quality control as "normal" is a bit disturbing to say the least.[/QUOTE]

That's because this has become "normal" to some extent in recent years. The last three Savages I've bought all looked like that. All are good shooters, around MOA at least. All are .308's, and two had chatter marks not quite that bad but still visible to the naked eye. The other one, a 10FP, looked identical to the photos in the OP. When you run a brass brush through it, the cleaning rod hums due to the vibration. Yet, it shoots very well, sub-moa out to 600 yds, which is the farthest I can shoot. I've shot .8-" groups at 300 yds with that barrel. It does foul a lot, no surprise there. But like most Savages, the fouling seems to help accuracy if anything. I still clean it after every 50-100 rounds with Wipe-Out. My point is that, while it may be unsightly, it's not necessarily going to make it a poor shooter. I'd give it a try before sending it back.

[barrel-nut]

My .270 barrel looks very similar to that. Like zap says, hard to clean, but shoots good. Seems to get better every time I shoot it. Thought about putting some Tubbs lapping rounds through it, but haven't yet. Planning to change caliber anyway for unrelated reasons. Like foxx says, just "shoot it and see what you get'

FWIW, the first rounds I ever fired through the above-mentioned 10FP were from the Tubbs fire-lapping kit. I loaded and fired the full sequence of progressively finer-abrasive coated bullets, I think it was fifty in all. Been quite a while so I don't remember if it was fifty, or twenty-five. Anyway, they had absolutely no visual impact on the chatter marks at the muzzle, so don't buy these expecting any miracles. I can't say if they improved the throat area or not. I don't have a bore scope. Nor can I say if the barrel would have shot as well had I not used them, as the barrel was new when it did the "fire lapping".

[barrel-nut]

Brownells makes a lapping kit that is comprised of JB Bore paste, Kroil and a kind of felt pellet. It works pretty well from my experience. I have used it and I like the results. It may not completely eliminate your train tracks but I think it should help.

That amount of chatter is not going to be smoothed out easily by any means, and probably if you were to be somehow able to polish it all away, it would probably not shoot as well any more. I do agree that they shouldn't leave the factory looking like that, but the cure may be worse than the disease if you try to remove this much metal. You would almost certainly need to re-crown the barrel if you polished all that out all the way to the muzzle. Again, I'd try shooting it first to see how it does. Unless you just can't live with the appearance, or the fouling. Then I'd just send it back, as Jim suggested.
Edited to add: That roughness should have been honed out at the factory prior to rifling, in my opinion. Most other gunmakers do that, some better than others. This is not to be confused with the hand-lapping that better aftermarket barrels get, though.

[DrThunder88]

I JB-ed a fairly rough 12FV (50-100 strokes) and it is a fantastic shooter. The marks are still there, of course. Getting them out would almost certainly mean significantly altering the bore dimensions. I didn't do a "before" group, so I can't detect any improvement, but it is a solid sub-moa and almost entirely reliable 1/2 inch, 5-shot group shooter.

[J.Baker]

That's because this has become "normal" to some extent in recent years. The last three Savages I've bought all looked like that. All are good shooters, around MOA at least. All are .308's, and two had chatter marks not quite that bad but still visible to the naked eye. The other one, a 10FP, looked identical to the photos in the OP. When you run a brass brush through it, the cleaning rod hums due to the vibration. Yet, it shoots very well, sub-moa out to 600 yds, which is the farthest I can shoot. I've shot .8-" groups at 300 yds with that barrel. It does foul a lot, no surprise there. But like most Savages, the fouling seems to help accuracy if anything. I still clean it after every 50-100 rounds with Wipe-Out. My point is that, while it may be unsightly, it's not necessarily going to make it a poor shooter. I'd give it a try before sending it back.

Well, I have four factory take-off barrels here in different calibers, all from guns made in the last 2-3 years, and not one of them has any visible machining chatter in them at the muzzle. I've also never gotten in a review rifle that had any kind of machining chatter like that and I typically review 3-4 centerfire rifles every year. If you're willing to accept such a barrel that's your prerogative, but I'm sure I'm not alone when I say I sure as heck wouldn't. Even mass production rifles have quality standards, and the barrel above falls well short of them. Whether it shoots well or not is irrelevant. That's like buying a new car with a dead cylinder in the engine but saying it's ok because it still runs and drives down the road. :der:

[foxx]

^^^^ I agree with Jim. I have actually had a LOT of new factory barrels in my hands the last 6 months (60-70?) don't ask why. :)

None of them looked like that.

In some regards, I would say, "If it shoots well, don't worry about it." but there is the chance it could become problematic if it proves to be a source of heavy copper fouling. THough I agree Savage factory barrels shoot better with some fouling, it doesn't mean I would want a barrel that's got so much chatter that it NEEDS a TON of fouling to smooth it out to a reasonably smooth surface.

I really do not think Savage would argue any if the owner asked for a new one. If I needed it for one deer hunt, I'd hunt with it and then send it back.

[xsskeet]

Savage has been really good in replacing barrels! Last fall I had a 111 in 30-06 that had some weird striations the last 1.5 - 2.0 at the muzzle. I called them, they issued a UPS label and with a 3.5 week turn around had the rifle back in hand. Barrel replaced and refinished the whole firearm.

In September of this year I finally had a chance to mess with a 111 in 25-06. I found 2 "loose" areas in the bore. Called them up, UPS label issued and 3.5 weeks later I had the rifle back in hand with new barrel.

The strange part was that both "damaged" barrels shot really well!!! MOA or better with my loads.

The new barrel 30-06 shoots just as good if not a little better with groups between .5 and 1.0 depending on how well I do my part. Have not had a chance to ring out the 25-06, but cleaning it after it's return, the barrel was smooth and tight. No loose spots... Just hope when I get it on the range it will do as good.

Give them a call.. I don't expect hand lapped precision match grade barrels, but on the other hand I don't want crap either! If that was my barrel, it would be heading back.

Just my .02 on the subject. Good Luck.

[barrel-nut]

I must have really bad luck, then, which is probably true lol. My point was only that I have a really hard time sending back a barrel that shoots really well. Not talking about a "running on 7 cylinders" thing here. And believe it or not, The fouling is not a huge problem, no pressure issues or anything. The Wipe-out takes care of it really well.
I'm just not real excited about the hassle of sending a gun back, if it shoots really well, which it does. That's just me, and I completely understand and even agree with those who would reject it. If mine didn't shoot so well I wouldn't be happy with it. Also, I bought that rifle as a donor just for the action, but it shot so well I left it alone for about five years before I finally rebarreled it. So initially at least, I didn't care what the barrel looked like because I had no intention of really using it. I've since re-installed it on another action, because I couldn't let it go.