Possible Pressure signs in m200 Stevens ??????

[7stw]

My son has a model 200, in .270 win. We started off with a mild load. And I do mean mild. Regardless of what load or combo, including 2 types of factory ammo, it seems to always come out with a VERY flat primer. There are no other signs of high pressure however. Easy extraction, easy resizing, primer pockets are tight, groups are good. case life has been very good. I usually get alarmed when I see this. However, I can't seem to come up with any reason that would indicate high pressure. Anybody have any thoughts or suggestions ? Is this something that I should contact Savage on? Have never seen this except when true high pressure WAS a issue. I have treated it as if it was , but nothing changes no matter how low I go on components . HELP>>>>>7STW. AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL.

[hotbrass]

I dont consider flat primers to be a big deal.

If the pockets are still tight, and no other pressure signs. I would not consider it an issue.

[darkker]

If there is no extraction issues, Nor Case head expansion issues; that further illustrates why primers are never more than an indicator.
As you mentioned "mild, I mean MILD". There is the possibility that you are running into a hang-fire, detonation situation.

[dcloco]

Flat primers are still flat primers. This is an indication that something IS wrong.

Any chance of providing a picture of some fired brass? Prefer photo of the flat primers and a side shot of the case as well.

Would also like to see a picture of the face of the bolthead.

[Dirk]

Flat primers are no longer a good indicator of high pressure. Manufacturers of primers use different hardnesses of brass to make the cups. Winchester (unplated) will flatten in any caliber, with any load. I would venture that there is NOTHING wrong with your rifle or loads.

[DGD6MM]

I agree with Dirk, for this is true. Soft cup.

[tammons]

If I remember right a bit long headspace will cause flat primers with normal pressure
so if you have a nogo gage you might want to check that.

That said I have shot a good bit of factory ammo in a rifle with the proper head space (checked by me)
that came out with super flat primers.

I use CCI BR primers and they are hard.
Usually when the primers start really flattening out, like borderline high pressure,
0.5 gr more and I will see minor brass flow.

[Eric in NC]

I agree - don't trust flat primers alone as a sign of high pressure. That being said, long headspace and/or oil in the chamber will cause flat primers with normal pressure loads.

[Dangerous Dan]

The 270 is one of the old Hotrods and as most have said flat primers are standard That said just for your pice of mind run a headspace gage in your gun and check it . If it is OK move your load up till your raidis starts to flatten on the outer edge of the primer or you get cupping in the fireing pin strike or exctractor marks in the case . Hope this helps Be save and go slow DD

[powderburn]

I have a 308 and experienced much the same thing as you are. Like you I load pretty mild so I was somewhat surprised/distressed. I sent the rifle back to savage and got it back without much response other than it was OK and 3 spent cases which had mildly flattened primers. I have found one thing that has helped and that is I have backed off my resizer die and am only neck sizing the cases. Since doing that I haven't noted the issue on reloads. I do think the problem is that while my rifle may be in spec it is on the upper end of the range and when I FL resize I was bumping the shoulder back a bit too far. This allowed the firing pin to drive the case fwd and then upon firing it slammed back into the bolt face and flattened the primer. It's the only thing I can come up with. Like you everything else (bolt lift, extraction) is fine . Hope this helps.

[bigedp51]

Take a new unfired case, trim to length as you normally would and measure the case length and write the length down.

Take a fired spent primer and just start the primer in the primer pocket.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP0704.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP0706.jpg

Now slowly chamber the round in your chamber seating the primer with the bolt.

Extract the case and remeasure the total length of the case paying attention to measure from the rear of the primer.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/bigedp51/IMGP0710.jpg

Now subtract the first case measurement from the second case measurement.

The difference between the two case measurements is your head gap clearance or the air space between the rear of the case and the bolt face.

NOTE: a new case on average is .002 shorter than minimum head space to ensure chambering, if you subtract .002 from your case measurements above you will know how many thousandths over GO or minimum head space your rifle is set at.

[fatdaddy]

I believe a dished bolt face, common on savage, will give you a false head space measurement if using the primer as the point to measure from. I also feel the same dished bolt face could be the cause of the flat primers. A properly head spaced barrel will still allow rearward movement of primer if the bolt face is dished abit. The primer will be a little mushroomed and flat, even on a lite load. Bill

[7stw]

Thanks to all that have responded. Sorry that I didn't follow up with this thread before now but work has kept me busy lately. I read all the replies and have drawn some good thoughts from each . I decided to back off my resizer die just a wisker, as I DID heve problems similar to this on another rifle, (not a savage), and that did fix the problem. Additionally, I did take someones advice, and am trying some cci br2 benchrest primers. I do think that that my sons gun has slightly longish headspace, and that is PROBABLY, the culprit. If I do not get better results with these suttle changes, I am going to either get a wrench and a headspace gage and check it myself, or have my local guy check it for me. It is not screaming high pressure, but I don't want to take any chances. I think that with all the advice, I am on the right track of at least ruling out any real possibilities. And I do beleive that if this dosen't cure it, the "dished out " firing pin hole could be an issue also. Thanks to all that responded. This is truly a great website for us "Barrel Nut Freaks". AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL...........7STW.