First or Second Focal Plane Scope for Varmints?

[yobuck]

Im affraid im going to have to see to believe some of the claims made with regard to ranging acuratly with the reticle.
Especially on targets at extreme distances of unknown size. An error of just 50 yards means a miss with even with magnums
at distances under 1000 yds.

[darkker]

.but, would not want to hunt with a "long ranger" who did not use a range finder on there target of unknown size.

Come on D, you know how big your deer are, you know how much chest area the lungs take-up, and you know how big their hearts are.
Someone who doesn't know those things are who I wouldn't hunt with, regardless of the equipment they have.

[Jamie]

First Focal Plane looks like the way to go.


Opinions?

A year ago I would have SFP and save your money, now I don't ever see me buying a SFP again. So much so, that I find myself always grabbing for a rifle that has a FFP over a SFP scope on it every time I go out.

[adammiddagh]

After using ffp, I have a hard time even looking at sfp scopes.

[yobuck]

Come on D, you know how big your deer are, you know how much chest area the lungs take-up, and you know how big their hearts are.
Someone who doesn't know those things are who I wouldn't hunt with, regardless of the equipment they have.

Well i just checked the 8 whitetail deer heads we have hanging on the walls here all with full shoulder mounts. They vary by as much as 3" top to bottom.
We hunt bear here also and needless to say a 150# bear will be a far different size than a 300 # bear.
I have several scopes with dot reticles and as we all know a 1 minit dot covers 1" at 100 yds and 10" at 1000 yds, provided the power used is the power the dot was set up on.
Over many years ive made numerous attempts to range distant objects with those dots. Lets just say im not good enough to do it.
But them im not good enough to shoot my 308 acuratly at a mile either nor would i even consider trying it.
A 6.5 wsm with a 140 smk leaving the muzzel @ 3400 fps with a 100 yd zero, drops over 78" at 700 yds, and over 94" at 750 yds according to the chart i have.
So assuming everybody had a 3400 fps 6.5, an error of 50 yds at even 700 yds could mean a missed deer even assuming there were no other errors
with the shooting. Of coarse were talking first round hits here.
Guessing the distance, then seeing the hit and correcting off that for a follow up shot is a different situation than accuratly ranging the target.

[earl39]

Good luck seeing the miss around here. Maybe where there is lots of dirt showing but hard to spot a miss in grass.

[D.ID]

First round is the only one.
If your missing that first one you need better training before you come out in the field and engage live targets.
I have sean several inches difference from deer to deer and even more in elk.........bear? forget known size for bear.
Without a precise and confident ranging system for targets of unknown size......it's irresponsible.

[darkker]

Shooting 700 yards at a deer, means you have no stalking game :cool:

[yobuck]

First round is the only one.
If your missing that first one you need better training before you come out in the field and engage live targets.
I have sean several inches difference from deer to deer and even more in elk.........bear? forget known size for bear.
Without a precise and confident ranging system for targets of unknown size......it's irresponsible.

Well ive asked this question before here, but i guess its worth asking again.
If on first shot you dont succeed, im assuming its game over and you pack up and go home?
Practice, practice more and by next season i (might) be ready and worthy?
Do you carry more than one round? Does your gun have a magazine? If so do you use it?
When hunting areas with tree covered hills, is it possible for a round to be deflected by the many many branches
the bullet could encounter? Or does practice practice prepare us for that situation also?
Is it ok for a guy sitting on a stump on the edge of a swamp hoping for a 50 yard shot, to have the magazine stuffed full
on his old Savage 99? Offhand shots are ok for him, even on running animals? I mean he does know where the deers heart is right?
But some guy shooting a bench built gun from a bench across a wide windy valley needs to hit his deer on the first shot?
Has anybody who is a very good trapshooter ever missed a pheasant on the first shot? Any bets on all 3 shots?
What we apperently have here are a bunch of dreamers whove never actually done what they talk about doing, and stating what others should be doing. And the dialog coming from them prooves it.
Yes it is possible and certainly desirable to make first round hits. But its also very possible for a miss even with the best shooters.
Where the inexperienced part shows is where guys think they can hunt long distances alone without a spotter.
Ive watched deer get hit in vital spots with 300 gr bullets and not even flinch. Just walk off like nothing happened for quite aways before dropping.
Ive also watched numerous times as they ran downhill as fast as they could go for several hundred yards before folding up dead. That after a heart and lung shot with a large cartridge.
And ive also watched the wind carry a bullet a considerable distance into the wrong animal and the shooter never knew it happened.
Im afraid it takes more than practice practice. It also takes good equiptment, and good shooters who know how to use it. And even then, there can be
problems coping with conditions.

As for the scope, id advise buying any freaking scope that appeals. Because it really wont make any difference in the long run.
All education cost money, you will ultimatly get it figured out yourself as to your needs, what works and what dosent if thats the goal.

[D.ID]

Well ive asked this question before here, but i guess its worth asking again.
If on first shot you dont succeed, im assuming its game over and you pack up and go home?
Practice, practice more and by next season i (might) be ready and worthy?
Do you carry more than one round? Does your gun have a magazine? If so do you use it?
When hunting areas with tree covered hills, is it possible for a round to be deflected by the many many branches
the bullet could encounter? Or does practice practice prepare us for that situation also?
Is it ok for a guy sitting on a stump on the edge of a swamp hoping for a 50 yard shot, to have the magazine stuffed full
on his old Savage 99? Offhand shots are ok for him, even on running animals? I mean he does know where the deers heart is right?
But some guy shooting a bench built gun from a bench across a wide windy valley needs to hit his deer on the first shot?
Has anybody who is a very good trapshooter ever missed a pheasant on the first shot? Any bets on all 3 shots?
What we apperently have here are a bunch of dreamers whove never actually done what they talk about doing, and stating what others should be doing. And the dialog coming from them prooves it.
Yes it is possible and certainly desirable to make first round hits. But its also very possible for a miss even with the best shooters.
Where the inexperienced part shows is where guys think they can hunt long distances alone without a spotter.
Ive watched deer get hit in vital spots with 300 gr bullets and not even flinch. Just walk off like nothing happened for quite aways before dropping.
Ive also watched numerous times as they ran downhill as fast as they could go for several hundred yards before folding up dead. That after a heart and lung shot with a large cartridge.
And ive also watched the wind carry a bullet a considerable distance into the wrong animal and the shooter never knew it happened.
Im afraid it takes more than practice practice. It also takes good equiptment, and good shooters who know how to use it. And even then, there can be
problems coping with conditions.

As for the scope, id advise buying any freaking scope that appeals. Because it really wont make any difference in the long run.
All education cost money, you will ultimatly get it figured out yourself as to your needs, what works and what dosent if thats the goal.
I have answered this question before but guess it is worth answering again......
I will happily concede: Of course things happen and follow up shots are common.
I actually do hunt with a single shot.............but carry extra ammo of course.
No one ever plans a miss but many here among us seam far to comfortable with the prospect.
That first shot that brakes the silence and announces your presence also changes the dynamics of the situation entirely.

[D.ID]

Shooting 700 yards at a deer, means you have no stalking game :cool:

I do not need stalking game if I can shoot my deer at 700 yards:)
P.S. No clue how to use the cool smilies so.....you win that one.

[yobuck]

No one ever plans a miss but many here among us seam far to comfortable with the prospect.
That first shot that brakes the silence and announces your presence also changes the dynamics of the situation entirely.

Its not really about wether or not a person is comfortable with a miss, or how much of an ego boost they get from a first round hit.
We are (not snipers) who's life might depend on his shot. And make up your mind to the fact that they also miss shots.
I feel a shooter should do all he can to assure a clean kill once he decides to shoot at an animal.
A whitetail deer unlike other animals, will most often stand there or lay there and not be bothered by shots coming from a distance.
Ive often seen them sniff where the bullet hit. Unless theyve been hit they will usually not move very far when shot at.
So breaking the silence to quote you, has little to no affect on them.
That being the case at least on the longer shots, why not take a sighter shot or shots if necessary, at a nearby target?
To my way of thinking its unethicle (not) to do that as opposed to how others might think.
Is this all about us and our ego, or is it about killing the deer?
The major reason many people feel as they do about this is because they really havent observed how deer react when being shot at from long distances.
And they also havent observed how they react to stalkers either lol. And if they did most of them would quit stalking like right now.
The spotter system of hunting long range is the only ethicle way to do it. By that i dont mean spotter shots, but a person acting as a spotter using large optics.
You just dont go walking about alone with your new 338 lapua or whatever looking for something to shoot at way over there because you think your really good.
Its essentually varmit hunting for deer using the same methods. If thats a turnoff for you thats fine, were all entitled to our opinions.
Theres always a stump on the edge of a swamp somewhere, or you could become a good driver, i mean stalker lol.
Weve finished off a few and gathered up a few dead ones also that the sneaky Petes gave up on.

[D.ID]

I think you misinterpreted my intent.
I quit stalking along time ago. My ideal shots are 500-1k and don't even want that 50 yard shot.
When i referance a "miss" i am meaning a bad shot, likly a wounding shot.
My experience is opisit of yours on deer and allot more so on elk, they often scatter when the shooting starts and a follow up on a wounded running animal at 700 is a nightmare.

[D.ID]

I have hit a little high or a little farther back than intended but never hit the dirt around them to watch reactions.

[yobuck]

As a shooter, you wouldnt be observing those things. The spotter observes them.

[D.ID]

I'm all for a competent spotter but.......
Can spot my own most the time, if you can't you need a better brake.

[yobuck]

I cant think of who it was, maybe Lincoln who said, (quote) to thine ownself be true.

[darkker]

No, that was a rip-off of a Latin quote: Nosce Te Ipsum... Could have come from one of Horace's satires, but fuzzy on that.