6.5 Creedmore......260 Remington

[LongRange]

I do that now with my Creedmoor. Trim parent cases to Creed length, FL size, check trim length and done. But I understand the point.


:rolleyes: from the quote below:cool: And the velocities posted by most Creed owners.



I do agree with this. However far too many don't test things equally. How many times will you see someone talk about weighing brass by volume? Weight and volume are not the same, there is no single recipe to making brass alloys, and no one could answer about volume variations on a given production run from a factory anyway? The assumption by most, is that if you load "the same" load in different brass that somehow pressures are identical; and typically are loading extruded powder by weight not volume.
So don't know how far over Pressure they are, but if they change something but pretend it's the same, if the brass suffers it is inferior quality....

Does Lapua make good brass? I'm sure they do. Does Hornady have poor brass quality? No they do not.

For anyone out there in TV Land who is curious. When Pressure testing the Creedmoor last fall, we found that for every 75-100 fps increased, you will add 10-15,000 psi.
With 140's the Creedmoor SAAMI's at about 2700 fps. So anyone who rambles on about how they are pushing them to 2,900-3,000 fps. "With no pressures"; is a bloody fool.

I agree with you 100% about volume of brass and have done field testing with nosler,federal and Winchester...I don't have the equipment that you have but I can tell you that with the same charge weight with the three cases in a 300wm the nosler brass was fine but still over pressure according to the chrony...federal had flat primers and was quite a bit faster and the Winchester blew primers out of the pockets.

I also agree that hornday brass isn't bad brass per say...but...and I can only comment on 50pcs of their 300wm brass...I bought a 50 box and the internal volumes were all over and had a 13g ES...out of the 50pcs there was 10 that had a 2g spread all the rest were 3+gs.

I also know...like you said...MOST ppl don't pay attention to the brass/barrel length/primers and velocities that the books list...I know that Remington 260 brass has the most internal volume of all the 260 brass at 56-57g H2o and that lapua has the least at about 52-53gs H2o which equates to higher pressure with the same charge and IMHO is where ppl get the idea that the brass is bad.

[eddiesindian]

Great answers guys.
I have no intensions of going the Creedmoor route. Im "extremely" pleased with my Stock LRP 12 in 260 Rem. The 260 LC Brass I purchased from Matt (Grumpa) is working out just as planned with no issues at a significantly lower cost. Been sending pills from 200 out to 1300 (so far) and I couldn't be happier. The stock rig just suprises me to no end.
Ive always been inquisitive if there are any factual reasons as to what makes the Creed more accurate and consistant as users/shooters suggest.
#1. I had no idea it was developed for gas guns
#2. I didn't know theres a difference in case capacity.

[wbm]

if there are any factual reasons as to what makes the Creed more accurate and consistant as users/shooters suggest.

Hard to say. Perhaps the difference is like the 6mm PPC and 6mm Remington BR....at first PPC shooters said no way the 6mm BR was as good but a lot of 6mm BR folks began to make that opinion more of a subjective one. It could be that the shoulder angle and case dimensions of the Creedmoor, like the PPC, lend themselves to more consistent accuracy than the 260. Or not. Who knows?

[darkker]

LR,
The one caution about Win brass I have for you, is lots.
Olin sold the cartridge brass business around a decade ago. So now they buy on a "least-cost" bid contract. So where, who, how it gets built can change at any moment. I know of 2 different sources since the sale.

Now this isn't too say what they are doing is wrong, or bad. Just that everyone has different machines and tolerances.

[LongRange]

LR,
The one caution about Win brass I have for you, is lots.
Olin sold the cartridge brass business around a decade ago. So now they but on a "least-cost" bid contract. So where, who, how it gets built can change at any moment. I know of 2 different sources since the sale.

Now this isn't too say what they are doing is wrong, or bad. Just that everyone has different machines and tolerances.

this is the reason I weigh all new brass with H2o and then look back at the weights of the last lot I shot and adjust accordingly....a little over board but I weigh them again after the first firing and FL re-size.

[eddiesindian]

Hard to say. Perhaps the difference is like the 6mm PPC and 6mm Remington BR....at first PPC shooters said no way the 6mm BR was as good but a lot of 6mm BR folks began to make that opinion more of a subjective one. It could be that the shoulder angle and case dimensions of the Creedmoor, like the PPC, lend themselves to more consistent accuracy than the 260. Or not. Who knows?
I thought about the angle as well.
From what I can gather, its subjective to the user/shooter.

[velvetant]

I do that now with my Creedmoor. Trim parent cases to Creed length, FL size, check trim length and done. But I understand the point.


:rolleyes: from the quote below:cool: And the velocities posted by most Creed owners.



I do agree with this. However far too many don't test things equally. How many times will you see someone talk about weighing brass by volume? Weight and volume are not the same, there is no single recipe to making brass alloys, and no one could answer about volume variations on a given production run from a factory anyway? The assumption by most, is that if you load "the same" load in different brass that somehow pressures are identical; and typically are loading extruded powder by weight not volume.
So don't know how far over Pressure they are, but if they change something but pretend it's the same, if the brass suffers it is inferior quality....

Does Lapua make good brass? I'm sure they do. Does Hornady have poor brass quality? No they do not.

For anyone out there in TV Land who is curious. When Pressure testing the Creedmoor last fall, we found that for every 75-100 fps increased, you will add 10-15,000 psi.
With 140's the Creedmoor SAAMI's at about 2700 fps. So anyone who rambles on about how they are pushing them to 2,900-3,000 fps. "With no pressures"; is a bloody fool.
Question:
Most competitors are running barrels longer then normal so shouldn't you expect higher velocities.
Example: 6.5 Creedmoor@2700ish fps with a 24" barrel, I would expect 2800-2850ish with a 28" barrel.
Would that be a correct assumption?
I agree anything over that is pushing pressure.

[eddiesindian]

Question:
Most competitors are running barrels longer then normal so shouldn't you expect higher velocities.
Example: 6.5 Creedmoor@2700ish fps with a 24" barrel, I would expect 2800-2850ish with a 28" barrel.
Would that be a correct assumption?
I agree anything over that is pushing pressure.

I guess it would be possible that 4 inches could equate to that much gain in speed and pressure.
My stock LRP with its 26" tube is giving me 2750fps with 40.5gr of imr 4350 pushing 130vld bergers. Its accurate,and consistant. I went the route of more might be better?....not so...not at all. I quickly learned that this caliber doesn't take kindly to achieving higher speeds.

[psharon97]

Trying to figure out which 6.5mm cartridge to go with is like trying to say with 30 cal short magnum is better. The 260, 6.5 creedmoor, or the 6.5x55 are so close together, that, in the interest of long range shooting, you would only be correcting 2 to 5 more clicks on a scope. They all have advantages and disadvantages. If you prefer to have Lapua brass in a short action, get the 260. If you have a long action, get the 6.5x55. If you don't care to reload, or you want to be able to go to the store to get high quality ammo that will perform, then get the creedmoor.

Arguing like this is like trying to say which one is hotter: brunettes, blondes, or redheads.

[eddiesindian]

Trying to figure out which 6.5mm cartridge to go with is like trying to say with 30 cal short magnum is better. The 260, 6.5 creedmoor, or the 6.5x55 are so close together, that, in the interest of long range shooting, you would only be correcting 2 to 5 more clicks on a scope. They all have advantages and disadvantages. If you prefer to have Lapua brass in a short action, get the 260. If you have a long action, get the 6.5x55. If you don't care to reload, or you want to be able to go to the store to get high quality ammo that will perform, then get the creedmoor.

Arguing like this is like trying to say which one is hotter: brunettes, blondes, or redheads.

Im not arguing in any way shape or form. I simply ask,d a specific question pertaining to the Creedmoor cartridge. Nothing more. Nothing less.
Im not trying to figure out what cartridge to go with. Im good with my LRP in 260.
Read the 1st post.
Thnks

[darkker]

Question:
Most competitors are running barrels longer then normal so shouldn't you expect higher velocities.
Example: 6.5 Creedmoor@2700ish fps with a 24" barrel, I would expect 2800-2850ish with a 28" barrel.
Would that be a correct assumption?
I agree anything over that is pushing pressure.

The problem isn't just length, it's all the dimensions; chamber, bore, Groove, throat.

For example:
My Creed barrel is a very long 26(as in longer than), MZ5 has a standard factory 24. They only run about 20fps difference at the same Pressure with typical powders. Throw a really progressive powder in and suddenly they are the same.