Primer frustration--- need some advice. I still don't think it's the primer

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Do you still have the loaded rounds that FTF? Change the OAL by pulling the bullets out a bit so they jam into the lands. See if they'll fire that way. Probably have to single feed. If they fire that will tell you that the primers are OK. and if they fire, make sure you don't push the shoulders back too far on the brass if resized. If they don't fire, push the primers out and get a good look at them. SMACK them with a hammer. That will tell you for sure. One step at a time till you figure things out. Mike.

[Trapper]

T hanks for the advice Mike, I am trying one thing at a time as this post has given me some things to work with. Sometimes the easiest fixes are the obvious ones that we fail to see. I will keep the post up till I find the answer. Raining today so, I may have to wait a few days to make the range again.
But thanks to all

[Robinhood]

Since it is raining pull the action out of the stock and look to see if the seer is dragging on top of the trigger. If it is then the seer will not be able to move out of the way cocking pin causing interference with the firing pin travel, acting as a brake and reducing speed thus force. This may not be the issue but the reasoning is....the arc of the seer travel follows the radius just to the left of the trigger seer ledge in the picture. This radius is not correct for minimal over travel. Set your over travel to clear the trigger.

http://www.eabco.com/images/RBSav1.gif

I hate to keep bringing this up but it seems it would be a simple thing to inspect and fix. Very little else explains your issue. You don't even have to go to the range. You can install primers in the cases that failed to fire and strike them in the garage.

[Trapper]

Robinhood, just finished taking the trigger assembly apart and couldn't find anything where the seer was rubbing with the trigger so I polished both areas anyway with dremel and flitz. The one thing I did find was when I put everything back together, the trigger was even smoother than it was before. I did change out the accu-trigger spring with a benchrest Savage spring.
Not that had anything to do with it, just seemed like a good time to do it. While looking over the tifle out of the stpock, I noticed that the bolt at the back of the bolt assembly had some space maybe as wide as a dollar bill, so I called Savage and asked them the torque setting for that bolt and they said there wasn't one, so I broke out the Wheeler and torgued that darn thing as tight as I could get it comfortably. Did as you suggested, took 3 pieces of brass loaded only with primers and the rifle popped all three. Not sure if that will be the final fix, or not, but tomorrow is another range day unless it's pouring. Thanks for your advice and hanging in there with me on this.
Trapper
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a500/Trappernga/IMG_0856_zpsipegrmyq.jpg (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Trappernga/media/IMG_0856_zpsipegrmyq.jpg.html)
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a500/Trappernga/IMG_0857_zpsps5mothp.jpg (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Trappernga/media/IMG_0857_zpsps5mothp.jpg.html)
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a500/Trappernga/IMG_0851_zpshawucpaz.jpg (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Trappernga/media/IMG_0851_zpshawucpaz.jpg.html)
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a500/Trappernga/IMG_0853_zpsggabqk1f.jpg (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Trappernga/media/IMG_0853_zpsggabqk1f.jpg.html)
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a500/Trappernga/Mobile%20Uploads/Finalprodu_zpse67f3c84.jpg (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Trappernga/media/Mobile%20Uploads/Finalprodu_zpse67f3c84.jpg.html)

[Robinhood]

The only thing I would have done different would have been to make a visual inspection of the trigger at the fired position looking to see if the trigger was contacting the seer. There should be maybe enough rook for a .004 feeler gauge minimum between the two. That set screw in the back of the trigger will increase/decrease the over travel if needed. Good luck Devil Dog.

[earl39]

Could be the picture but your sear looks like it has some strange wear on it. It should be a nice smooth, flat edge with no burrs and it looks like it has a slight channel in the middle and very uneven wear.

[FW Conch]

^ Ditto! Picture makes it look like it is a "Mess"! :-( ^

[Trapper]

Looks like I am gonna break out the dremel and flitz and polish the sear. I just got back from the range and it shot 48 out of 50. I love the caliber and the rifle and will always have it, but when it goers " click", It makes me create some new cuss words. Can someone take a clear picture of what a good clean seer should look like please ? Thanks

[Robinhood]

Trapper. Lets verify that you have clearance. When you pull the trigger the sear slips off the ledge of the trigger. As the force of the trigger spring pushes the top of the sear down the bottom portion that contacts the trigger makes an ark that follows the large radius of the trigger.

This must have clearance. Verifiable Clearance as in feeler gauge or coke can thickness throughout the travel. It is obtained by backing out the screw minute amounts if there is none. This is important because it can obstruct the movement of the firing pin. If it is not that then you have an obstruction in the bolt or someone has lightened the spring by cutting it or adjusting the cocking piece end or the firing pin spring. I hate to keep pushing this but I want to make sure this is not the problem as you have ruled out head space. If you do verify the clearance and still have the problem, then you need to look at your bolt.

[Trapper]

Best picture I can get of the sear. Im not savy enoigh to visually see anything wrong
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a500/Trappernga/IMG_0859_zpsyxnswasl.jpg (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Trappernga/media/IMG_0859_zpsyxnswasl.jpg.html)

Robinhood, whatcha think? Obviously not cocked.

[Trapper]

http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2010/09/stsavage_0813a.jpg

This is a picture off the internet of a new trigger assembly.

[Robinhood]

Close the bolt, pull the trigger(empty chamber), release the trigger. Now pull on the trigger again. If it moves enough to clear the trigger throughout the travel you are good. If not turn the screw between the two springs counter clockwise less than an eighth of a turn.

If you do have clearance we need to look at the bolt internals.

[Trapper]

I just got back from the range today and saw your response. The trigger does exactly what you said it should do. LOL, Thank goodness too, cause that screw you mentioned has epoxy dabbed on the head. Now, here are two pictures showing all 50 rounds from today. All primers were struck and three FTF. I took one picture so you could see all the primers and then popped up the three that didn't. Now I am going to take the bolt apart again and double check the mainspring and all the other parts as well. It's like a jig saw puzzle, but I will find the secret it holds within.


http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a500/Trappernga/IMG_0862_zpse4bmh0s9.jpg (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Trappernga/media/IMG_0862_zpse4bmh0s9.jpg.html)
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a500/Trappernga/IMG_0863_zpsse2eenui.jpg (http://s1280.photobucket.com/user/Trappernga/media/IMG_0863_zpsse2eenui.jpg.html)

[Robinhood]

There are a few things you need to look for when checking your bot assembly. The cross pin needs to be lined up with the firing pin and you need to have close to .250 of travel. This is best done by making sure your cocking pin is very close to the bottom of the bolt's cut out /window. The firing pin should slide back and forth easily when you shake it. The cocking pin when at the fired position should move ever so slightly side to side when it is at the bottom of the slot(narrowest point). I like to say about .010 of the bottom. Ideally this will give you something close to the 1/4" of firing pin travel. This should be done after verifying you pin protrusion of .050 +or- .005. There are different schools of thought on protrusion and I use what some of the custom action manufacturers suggest or thereabouts.

Am I seeing more than one primer manufacture in the box?

[Trapper]

Yes sir, I was using a few Remington 71/2 and the rest were CCI 450's.

[earl39]

Trapper when all else fails change to a hand priming tool instead of the bench mounted one. You may not be getting the primers fully seated which would also cause the problems you are having. If your wolf primers are flush with the brass they are not seating all the way. At least not in my AA brass. Just another thing to consider.

[Trapper]

Thanks Earl, for the suggestion, LOL, I have tried about everything else. Spent an hour on the phone today with Savage and they had me take the bolt apart for probably the 10th time, and had me micing every part of the bolt. They are sending me a Savage 7.62x39 bolt head to try and see if that stops the problem. I have a PPG bolt head on it now, cause Savage wasn't making the 7.62x39 bolt head at the time.
I've been using the RCBS primer loader for so long now, I will have to dig my hand primer out of the "extra stuff box". Can't believe I hadn't thought about that idea.
Thanks again,
Trapper

[LongRange]

I've been using the RCBS primer loader for so long now, I will have to dig my hand primer out of the "extra stuff box". Can't believe I hadn't thought about that idea.
Thanks again,
Trapper

check post #18 ;)

[Trapper]

LongRange, I apologize for not answering that question about "did you uniform your primer pockets?" I clean my primer pockets each time I use that piece of brass. I have a Lyman electric machine for cleaning primer pockets, plus the inside and outside of the mouth. When I get back from the range I immediately resize the brass to knock out the primers, and check the length to see if I have to do any trimming. Then off to the ultrasonic cleaner and then the tumbler for clean brass. Blow out the brass with hot air from a hair dry. I then put them in marked boxes until I am ready to use. Saying all that, I'm still not sure if I answered your question. I push the primers out and clean the pocket, not sure if that is uniforming the primer pocket. Just do the best I can LOL.
Thanks,
Trapper

[Robinhood]

You are going to know your rifle real well when this is said and done.