Savage 12FV, .223 Accuracy Expectations

[centershot]

I purchased, new, a 12 FV in .223. It has a 9 twist barrel. My hand load with 50 grain V Max at about 3,300 fps will shoot 1.5 inches at 100 yards, and then go to five shots on a piece of paper! It will even k hole. I also shot Fiocchi 55 grain fmjs. They did not k hole, but accuracy was over two inches. I think the rifle should shoot a lot better than this! My main use for the rifle is prairie dogs with 50 to 55 grain bullets. Opinions?

[darkker]

My hand load with 50 grain V Max at about 3,300 fps will shoot 1.5 inches at 100 yards, and then go to five shots on a piece of paper! It will even k hole.

What in the Deuce does this mean? 1.5" on paper then goes to 5 shots?

It sounds like your reloads aren't suited to the rifle. You used fmj as a factory comparison for accuracy. That's a little like asking Stevie Wonder if it's cloudy outside.

Get some quality factory ammo and see how that shoots. Also 3300 is about max velocity, v you should never expect max velocity to be the most accurate.

[devildogandboy]

centershot, welcome to the forum. i have a 223 with 9 tw barrel also and have found the 60gr vmax's and varget powder work really well with it. it may be that your rifle doesn't care for the lighter bullets. with the 9 tw i would go with the 60-69grainers and give them a try. another powder that worked for me was imr4064.

Bruce

[Erik_J]

After getting some 1-1.5" groups with 55gr good factory stuff with my new 12FV, I just went straight to reloading myself with 69gr SMK bullets and the IMR4064 powder. The last several groups I shot with that combo were all less than .490 @ 100yard off a bipod and a rear bag.

[wbm]

If you are going to shoot factory ammunition, give American Eagle AR-223 50gr Tipped a try.

[centershot]

I would not want to shoot 69 grain bullets for prairie dogs. Instead of sacrificing a chicken, I sent it back to Savage. I do believe that it should shoot 50 to 55 grain bullets. Why do ammunition companies load 35 grain bullets? What factory rifle would shoot these? I do not know what is considered a standard factory twist, but it used to be 12.

[243LPR]

I believe Savage has 9 and 12 twist in their 223's. 35 gr is just a fast varmint bullet.Some guns like em,some don't.

[Texas10]

Took my son and a new model 12 FV in 223 to the range Sunday, along with several boxes of American Eagle AE223GTV tipped varmint (mentioned above). These are 50 gr. Hornaday V-Max and shoot very well out of my 12 BVSS in 223. Bore sighted the scope and proceeded to break in the barrel…shoot one then clean, shoot one and clean, etc. After 10 rounds shoot 3 clean. Watched him put 3 overlapping holes in the B-eye followed by 3 in a two inch group. I figured it was just him putting too much pressure on himself to replicate that feat. But then he's shooting off the shelf ammo.
The stock is an el cheap-0 "rubbermaid" stock so I am planning on replacing it, maybe with a micro-fit stock. http://www.rifle-stocks.com/target_style's.htm
Upon inspection of the brass at home, I noticed deep gouges in the walls of the brass particularly near the head. I contacted Savage and sent it back to have the burrs removed from the chamber. Otherwise, this is a model 12 with a 26 inch varmint barrel and should shoot sub MOA quite easily.

[Texas10]

The Model 12 FV in 223 (mine was purchased from Cabelas) is a 9 twist barrel. I believe it was a special made for Cabelas as most other stores sell the 12 FCV with bottom feed magazine, and costs about $300 more. The FV is a blind mag, center feed. I suspect 35 gr sent at warp speed will never make it to the target, turning into a puff of smoke soon as it leaves the muzzle.
I have been shooting 50, 52, 53, 55gr Hornadays, Sierra's and Noslers out of my 12 BVSS in 223. It shoots the 69 gr Noslers over IMR4320 quite well, and 69 SMK's over same or TAC, 3031 or 8208XBR. For varmints, try the 53gr V-Max, it's got a pretty decent BC.

[centershot]

I agree, Texas 10.I think those bullets should shoot in mine as well, not tumble. I know Savage has a good reputation for customer service.Hopefully, they will cure my problem.

[sixonetonoffun]

I would guess its a 1:12 tw if 50's didn't stabilize. 55's should though.

My 223 Axis shot 50gr- Varmint Grenades accurately but it was a fast twist. I only pushed them to 3150.

Boringly accurate. Was therapeutic to pull it out and restore my confidence when struggling with loads for other calibers.

[Texas10]

Forgot to mention action screw torque. Did you check and re-torque the action screws? They were loose on my 12 FV right out of the box. On the range, I had my son torque the front screw to 35-40 in. lbs, and slowly torque the rear while shooting 3 shot groups to "tune" the action. Once he found a good torque, we marked the head of the rear screw with a sharpie to monitor for any changes. I perform this "tune" on my 12 BVSS also which has a laminated stock. I doubt the plastic stock on the FV will hold a torque, but then we plan on replacing the stock anyway.

[centershot]

I would guess its a 1:12 tw if 50's didn't stabilize. 55's should though.

My 223 Axis shot 50gr- Varmint Grenades accurately but it was a fast twist. I only pushed them to 3150.

Boringly accurate. Was therapeutic to pull it out and restore my confidence when struggling with loads for other calibers.

The twist is 9, I checked it with a cleaning rod. Action screws were tight.

[firefinder]

I have the exact same rifle.
Mine will group 1.25" at 100 yards with 50 grain boat tail ballistic tips.
I can shoot 5 shot groups under a half inch (most wholes touch) at a 100 yards with nosler 55 gr varmageddon's .
I load them over 25 grains of H335.

[J.Baker]

Savage hasn't made a 1-12 twist .223 barrel for a bolt gun since 1994.

http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?305-Savage-223-Remington-Twist-Rate-History

A 1-9 twist barrel will shoot anything from 40gr Winchester White Box to 69gr bullets. Some guys are shooting heavier 75-77gr bullets with a 1-9 barrel, but you're really on the verge of stabilization there and I would suspect those doing it have a slightly faster twist rate since button rifling isn't always exact when it comes to rate.

[Stonewall_Jackson]

I have a 12 LRPV and it certainly shoots better than you described. It shoots that well at 300 yards in fact. It's done it at 400 yards at times. All rifles need to be fed the right ammo and what's right for one is not going to be right for another most of the time. It could happen of course but chances are the ammo your rifle prefers is out there somewhere even if you have to make it yourself. I can shoot Black Hills reman. ammo in mine and get great results. I really don't think you have a problem or your rifle would shoot even worse. I got my rifle with less than 10 rounds fired through it because someone was impatient with it. I bought it from a dealer that had it on consignment from the owner. When I told him how it shot a few months later he about had a cow. He thought something was wrong with it. For one thing mine had problems with nubs on the crown I believe. Once I shot it about 100 rounds it started getting more and more accurate. I thought it was accurate before but after 100 rounds I couldn't believe how accurate it was. Very few rifles shoot as well in that price range IMO and a lot of more expensive rifles won't do better. They are fantastic rifles IMO. Half the people at the local gun club use them for the 600 yard competition. According to the rangemaster they win pretty much every contest. I would have worked with that rifle a little more before sending it back to Savage. They're going to test it with high dollar ammo that they know almost always works well in that rifle and they aren't going to help you with it at all most likely. It doesn't shoot bad enough to be considered as having a problem and IMO you didn't give it a proper chance to show what it can do. But hey I saved about $300 buying a very slightly used rifle because someone thought it didn't shoot right. They were wrong and I got a great deal.

BTW your rifle is almost certainly a 1:9 twist. Savage does make some 1:7 twist rifles but mostly in the LRPV line. Mine is a 1:9 and it shoots some bullets up to 75gr but others it won't shoot above 69gr. Maybe my best group ever at 400 yards was done with 53gr but usually it doesn't do well with that round. I had the same bacn but from a different lot and it was compltely different. So lot numbers do matter with this rifle.

[Stonewall_Jackson]

I shot this set of groups today with my LRPV. The distance was 100 yards. I blew the very last shot by accidentally pulling the trigger too soon. It's the flyer on the left.

http://www.a-framevideo.com/Sep%2018%202015%20100%20yard%20LRPV%20target%20mea sured.jpg

[Lorenzo]

also consider the fact that you may need to build up some copper in that barrel to get consistant.

[Ranger3]

I have a 12 FV, 9 twist it shoots 55 vmax with 26 gr Varget very well on PD's out to 250 yds, also shoots the Hornady 50 pack 55 gr spire points well to the same distance. It has been very accurate the 55 gr Vmax with 26 gr Varget is a .5 MOA as is a 25.5 Gr. Benchmark load with 55 or 53 gr VMAX. So sending it back to Savage is probably the right move. Good Luck

[Stonewall_Jackson]

I may have benefited from some built up copper also. The more I shot my LRPV up until about 500 rounds the more accurate it got. I have shot quite a few 4" targets with it at 400 yards. I managed one group of about an inch but a group like that at that distance is mostly luck so I don't mention it that much.