Will Steel Case Ammo work with a Axis .223 ?

[rcmark]

If so can you recommend a brand?

Thanks!

[BlueDog]

Any steel cased ammo will go "bang" and fire out of the Axis. Remember, most steel cased ammunition use bimetallic bullets (copper AND steel), this means they are very hard on barrels, throats etc. Cheap vs. longevity? I wouldn't shoot them out of mine, but feel free. Here is a very comprehensive test preformed by LuckyGunnner, it's worth reading:

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

[rfd12fv]

if it's nato 5.56, that's a no-no for .223-only guns. other than that, fire away. what bluedog said. and personally i wouldn't use any krap rounds (steel junk in particular) in my guns, they deserve better, and i build all my rifle and pistol cartridges.

[devildogandboy]

unless you have this stuff on hand i wouldn't buy it myself. it's just junk made with inferior components that will probably gunk up your gun. spend a little more and get something you can actually shoot more accurately and won't gum up the barrel.

Bruce

[pisgah]

Cupro-nickel plated steel jacketed bullets have been studied for decades by the US Army, and the findings have consistently shown that while initial wear on bores is more rapid than with gilding-metal-jacketed bullets the wear stabilizes quickly and barrel accuracy actually outlasts that of barrels fired exclusively with the supposed "better" bullets. If you do some research online, this info is not all that hard to find. I have fired hundreds of Silver Bear 62 gr. loads through my Axis and find that accuracy is quite decent,generally around 1.25" groups at 100 yards, with no signs whatsoever of excess pressure and excellent results on deer and coyotes.

What "everybody knows" and "everybody says" is often not based on any facts whatsoever, in the shooting world or anywhere else.

[BlueDog]

What "everybody knows" and "everybody says" is often not based on any facts whatsoever, in the shooting world or anywhere else.

Exactly. That's why I linked the very comprehensive test by Lucky Gunner. They shot THOUSANDS of brass and THOUSANDS of steel and quantified the results with actual documented data. Pisgah, you should read the article, it's pretty eye opening (and not one sided, they also discuss the merits of steel case, just as any good ammo supplier should). Cupro Nickel jackets are long gone, most steel cased ammo is bimetallic a far different animal than the 1920's cupronickel. The bimetal bullets are lead core with a steel jacket with a thin layer of copper. I suspect plinking with Silver Bear at some tin cans would be fine, and I really doubt pressure is of any concern to any of the previous commenters. I believe the actual documented facts show that a steel jacketed bullet wears barrels/throats faster than a copper jacketed/gilding bullet. In my truck gun that sports more rust than I care to admit, yes, in my bull barreled target gun...? H*ll no!

[pisgah]

I've read the article, and I have read many, many reports of tests carried on by the Army for nearly a century. Look some of those up and read them, then believe what you want to believe. The main weakness of the Lucky Gunner test, IMO, is that they minimize the effect of the extreme high-volume fire done, and gloss over the fact that any firearm abused in the manner these were, with any ammo, is going to be trashed in pretty short order -- which was really the only thing proven.

[BlueDog]

Pisgah, I appreciate your diligence. I have done my fair share of research on the matter. I think my copy of Hatcher's Notebook has a section on it, and I think he clearly examines the issue of pure Cupronickel fouling excessively. The point is moot because the bullet in question is NOT cupronickel! The majority of steel cased ammunition uses a BIMETAL projectile. (STEEL jacket with a thin layer of copper...) Steel on steel! If you don't believe me, put a magnet to your Silver Bear bullets. Copper is not magnetic, nor is nickel.

The "Army" still uses copper/gilding jacketed bullets as does NATO. I don't think that's without reason. They've clearly done the tests, and have the funding to use what's best. Lucky Gunner's test did expedite results through mass numbers of rounds fired quickly (heat) and I think the results would be similar carried out over time, a box or two a year. I would assume they did an abridged version for sake of brevity.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but shooting a few hundred rounds and reporting no pressure signs or decent 1.5" accuracy is anecdotal evidence at best. Feel free to blaze away with your silver bear (I have a few boxes as well as the infamous Tula, lol). In the small amount of rounds most people shoot a year, there wouldn't be an appreciable difference. I have a Mustang I used to run on the track, I never did try to make a pass on kerosene, because there is a better alternative that the car seemed to run better on. To each his own.

[DrThunder88]

I saw a guy using .308 Winchester Hornady Steel Match in his Remington 700. It seemed to do pretty well, not really "match" performance, but moderately accurate when the primers went off. He estimated a fail-to-fire rate of about 10%.

I should mention that Steel Match uses Hornady's normal, copper jacket bullets in steel cases, so there are no bimetal jackets if that's a concern.

[pisgah]

Pisgah, I appreciate your diligence. I have done my fair share of research on the matter. I think my copy of Hatcher's Notebook has a section on it, and I think he clearly examines the issue of pure Cupronickel fouling excessively. The point is moot because the bullet in question is NOT cupronickel! The majority of steel cased ammunition uses a BIMETAL projectile. (STEEL jacket with a thin layer of copper...) Steel on steel! If you don't believe me, put a magnet to your Silver Bear bullets. Copper is not magnetic, nor is nickel.

The "Army" still uses copper/gilding jacketed bullets as does NATO. I don't think that's without reason. They've clearly done the tests, and have the funding to use what's best. Lucky Gunner's test did expedite results through mass numbers of rounds fired quickly (heat) and I think the results would be similar carried out over time, a box or two a year. I would assume they did an abridged version for sake of brevity.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but shooting a few hundred rounds and reporting no pressure signs or decent 1.5" accuracy is anecdotal evidence at best. Feel free to blaze away with your silver bear (I have a few boxes as well as the infamous Tula, lol). In the small amount of rounds most people shoot a year, there wouldn't be an appreciable difference. I have a Mustang I used to run on the track, I never did try to make a pass on kerosene, because there is a better alternative that the car seemed to run better on. To each his own.

Not trying to give you a hard time, either, but I never said "Cupro-nickel bullets" -- they are lead core, steel-jacketed, cupro-nickel plated bullets. As far as why the Army chooses to use anything, it is often not a matter of what they find "best", be it ammo, weapons, boots, whatever. Their choice can be based on anything from political considerations, to budgetary considerations, to the fact that a particular item may possess some particular characteristic that might be important to them but no one else. "Mil-spec" anything may not be the highest/best quality available, be it bullets, beans, boots, vehicles or office supplies -- merely what the military has chosen.

[rfd12fv]

the steel stuff is krap, always has been, always will be. why in the world would anyone wanna run inferior and damaging cartridges/bullets in their guns? to save a few buck$? i mean, really? geez. use decent ammo - your gun deserves it and so do you. better yet, don't buy yer cartridges, build them. loading ammo is too easy and the cost savings will allow ya to shoot even more - not to mention a very potential, and likely, increase in accuracy.

[sixonetonoffun]

I tried tula results seemed ok, accuracy was ok-ish.

But the high rate of hot rounds and the coating getting built up under my extractor claw just was not the way for me.

If you don't mind those issues have at it. Like Bluedog said they will go bang.

I have a steel cased 7.62x54r sitting in my kitchen. The patina after about a year of exposure is quite lovely. Humidity is not steels friend.

[daddyusmaximus]

Steel = AK ammo.

Steel + AR or bolt gun = bad choice.

[ohihunter2014]

cases are covered in laqure and gum up when hot and also my axis throat is short so the rounds would stick in the lands.

[Russ77]

I could see using it in a battle rifle or handgun that your putting hundreds of rounds down range with. But for trying to make Percision shots with a bolt action rifle I would go with the best ammo I can afford(I need all the help I can get when it comes to accuracy).