UN-BELEIVABLE ACCURACY, 10FP .223

[King Ghidora]

Yeah I find that my best groups come from shooting "fewer than 2" shots. You'd be surprised. They're almost all one hole (I do get some keyholes once in a while but I throw those out). You can't tell if more than bullet has gone through the hole. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/grinser/grinning-smiley-006.gif

[oldguy]

/quote]

Walt Berger is ...infamous(?) for saying that 3 shots will tell you whether the load is any good, whereas 5 shots tells you whether the shooter is any good. That's probably why I try to shoot groups of 2 or fewer shots! :D
[/quote]

After 3 rounds in one hole if 4 and 5 stray is it the gun or the shooter, if one shoots 5-3 round groups in succession that all hit under .300 would this then say we have a 15 shot group under .300.

When I'm working up loads I shoot 3 round groups and then average totals for the day if the average remains under .500 I'm happy.

[319]

Just read on another site where a guy is claiming you need at least 3 10 shot groups to even consider your rifle a "sub-moa" shooter. Any thoughts on this?

[McKinneyMike]

BS ;D

[SL1]

I remember NRA using a standard of "the average of 5 consecutive 5-shot groups" for published accuracy tests.

[7stw]

/quote]

Walt Berger is ...infamous(?) for saying that 3 shots will tell you whether the load is any good, whereas 5 shots tells you whether the shooter is any good. That's probably why I try to shoot groups of 2 or fewer shots! :D


After 3 rounds in one hole if 4 and 5 stray is it the gun or the shooter, if one shoots 5-3 round groups in succession that all hit under .300 would this then say we have a 15 shot group under .300.

When I'm working up loads I shoot 3 round groups and then average totals for the day if the average remains under .500 I'm happy.


[/quote]Your theory is the one that i work with also. Now it does seem that if the weather is cooler, say 50 or 45 degrees, and NO wind, I may be able to squeeze out an 5 shoter that is tight. But we are not talking NRA match shooting class rifles here. I typically shoot 3 shot groups, cool down, re-shoot the same load. Then take a aggregate of the total . That seems to work for me. MOST of my shooting has been with larger calibers, where barrel heat is not desirable. My .300 Ultra-Mag Sendero will shoot sub .5 groups with 3 shot groups. After that, the groups open, totally due to heat. My thought is that if if can't hit a deer after 3 shots, I need to go home anyway, and the noise alone has scared the!#$$% out of him. I like the 3 shot, reshoot routine. Thanks. 7STW. AIM SMALL, MISS SMALL......

[King Ghidora]

The only place I've ever seen any "records" listed were for 5 round groups. And that was for a single 5 round group. But there is no universal standard for such things. If you can put 75% of your shots in a MOA area in calm wind then you have an MOA gun IMO but who am I to say? Make up your own standards. Everyone else does.

[319]

"Call BS whenever anyone quotes a group of less than 10 shots. Refuse to assign any validity to it. Really 30 shots is what we need, and 10 is the minimum!"

"3 shots are never valid (unless you mean in the sense that a stopped close it right twice a day). 10 starts to show what 30 would show. I believe 30 is needed for a full picture but that is a lot of work. I am arguing you need *at least* ten. What I mean is, if someone posts on the internet a group and it is less than 10 shots, then just ignore it and call BS and tell them to go shoot 10 shots or more."

These are just two quotes from the site I was reading.

[joeb33050]

The argument on # of shots is about statistics.
For any given gun/load combination, the average size of the group is simply a function of the number of shots in the group.
For example:
5 shot groups will be 1.32 times as large as 3 shot groups
10 shot groups will be 1.74 times as large as 3 shot groups, and 1.31 times as large as 5 shot groups.
This is covered in an update to the book. If anyone wants a copy of the article, I'm joeb33050@yahoo.com
I'll email it.
joe b.

[McKinneyMike]

While I completely understand the statistical equations, all that I care about is one cold bore shot. Is it a good one. I could care less ab out groups. My first shot is the one that I always focus on, but I do understand the whole statistical aspect of group shooting too.

[DGD6MM]

I don't post pictures because of this kind of stuff. I bet when it's all said and done we ALL have shot more BIG groups then small one's. We just don't tell everyone.

[ThorBird]

I love that Walt Berger quote. Saving money on load development makes that a good quote too.

That cold bore shot is a good point. You got something in your sights that you may only have one shot at and your bullet doesn't hit where you aim sure does suck.