Thoughts on bullet weight and velocity

[icker96]

I am lucky enough to own a Savage .223 bolt rifle that shoots a lot of loads accurately. I have been playing around with loads and have come up with several options that are capable of 1/2 MOA (even though I am not always capable ](*,) ). Anyway, I would like thoughts on settling on a round that I will use most of the time. My home range only has a 100yd range, but it has a plan for 300yd eventually. I will occasionally visit a 200 or 300 yd range. My accurate loads include a 55r Nosler Varminter, a 60r VMAX, and a Hornady 68 HPBT. For each bullet, I have found a few different loads that are accurate.


The cost of each bullet is very similar and all loads are pretty close in powder used, so cost is not a factor. Is there an advantage to having a higher velocity (all are pretty much between 2700-3000fps)? What about bullet weight or BC at these distances? Any real advantage to having a bigger bullet with a higher BC? or a smaller, lighter bullet with higher velocity? the 55 Nosler and 68 Hornady are both boattail, and the 60 Vmax is flat base.


Thoughts and advice appreciated.

[scope eye]

By far the best compromise between weight and BC is the 53gr Vmax, with it's .290 BC and with 27gr of CFE223 or Varget you can easily get 3400 FPS.

Dean

[darkker]

Despite what most companies tell you, BC moves with velocitites. To a point, faster brings higher BC's. Generally PBR shooters will shoot flat base bullets out to 300 yards, due to less chance for any induced wobble from the boat tail and any slight inconsistencies with the crown; reduces jetting.

In any case, Lighter bullets will always have less drop at those distances due to speed and time that gravity can affect them.
Here is some numbers for you, ASSuming absolute warp speed launches for all, zeroed at 100. 1,000ft ele. 80 deg. 20% RH

50gr Speer flat base, SP Launched @ 3500 fps. 100 = 0. 200 = -2.3". 300 = -9.8" With 10mph wind = -11.9"
75gr JLK VLD bullet, launched @ 2780 fps 100 = 0. 200 = -3.7". 300 = -13.6" With 10mph Wind = -7.1"

If this is just for "fun" I would use what is the cheaper and more readily available option. That minor difference in drift is minor, and can be a valuable learning tool.

[BlueDog]

This is one of my favorite subjects. You didn't state what your goals are (strictly punching paper I assume). Replying generally and from a hunting (or rather killing) standpoint, I prefer speed, and lots of it. Some dismiss hydrostatic shock as hokum but I am a firm believer in it as I have witnessed it time and time again. I believed the crowd that shunned the practice usually used the "bullet blowing up" and lack of penetration as a talking point. AND they would be right if I was talking about a 40 grain varmint bullet out of a 220 Swift. I am referring to a controlled expansion bullet driven as fast as possible. Back when Barnes made them, I loaded 110gr for my 300 WinMag, and 100gr for my brother's 7mmMag. No tracking involved. I also have shot foru Whitetails with my 458 WinMag with 510gr bullets. No noticed reaction, or tissue damage when found. It got the job done of course, but I want quick painless kills.

I hope I didn't completely sidetrack your question, but speed, always.

[icker96]

Sorry about the omission. For this gun I am just punching paper, but I am trying to do it as accurately as possible.

If I understand correctly, once I find the bullet I am going to use I should try to get the highest velocity I safely can to keep the trajectory as flat as possible. As far as weight is concerned, out past 100 yards it is a trade-off between bullet drop and wind drift. Does that sound correct?

I have heard that about the flat base bullets before, and that is actually the reason I tried the 60gr Vmax. I have a local supplier here who carries Hornady bullets, so I will next check to see if he has the 53gr Vmax. Of course, it will probably shoot great and that will just add one more thing to the mix;)

[BlueDog]

Punching paper is great! (That and the results don't lie!) what a quandary to be found in? A rifle that isn't choosy. If i was strictly target shooting, and 3 separate bullets gave me sub MOA accuracy then I would try at your longer stated range of 300 to see if by chance one doesn't have the edge out further (what looks identical at 100, may be easily seen at 300). Count yourself lucky with a fine rifle like that, I'd be happy trying to find a load it doesn't like to digest! Lol. Between your choices listed, to your stated 300 it won't make much difference in my opinion.

[icker96]

Thanks for the replies. Until my range gets its permits and builds the 300yd range, who knows how long that could take, it is a major haul to get to a 300 yd range. However, there is a 200yd public range that is over-crowded and a little scary during the winter (I'm in snowbird country, Southwest Florida). I am hoping that it will not be too bad during the summer and am planning to go out there in the next week or two. I will load up 5 groups of 5 for each of the 3 bullets and look for any differences at 200 yards. If I see no differences, I will either pick the one I like, or the one that is on sale at the time I need to restock, or something along those lines.

I do agree it is a good problem to have. The even nicer thing is that I have been able to make accurate loads with combinations of all 3 of the bullets, 5 different powders, and 4 different primers. Seems like with some work I can make an accurate load out of whatever components I can find. Which is good because up until now, every time I find a load I like I would run out of powder, and not be able to find that brand again. I finally decided on CFE223 and bought 8 lbs.

Even better, this is a stock over the counter Savage Model 11. All I have done is put on a higher mag scope, a new stock from Boyd's, and a feeder ramp to make it easier to load single shot.

[jerry shaw]

The 60 Noslers are pretty much my go-to bullet unless I'm shooting matches at 300 and beyond. They shoot about a half minute in a bunch of my rifles, and that's pretty decent. It sounds trivial, but since they have boat tails, they seem to seat easier and straighter than flat base bullets.
If you're shooting at moderate distances (e.g. up to 300 yards), it's awfully hard to beat Nosler 60 ballistic tips. They aren't a whole lot different from AMAX bullets, performance-wise. Both are easy to load and shoot good small groups. I shoot competitively, and have found that either one outshoots my ability to hold the rifle (offhand) at 200 yards.
Having said that, I have had some ridiculous groups from heavy bullets out of my LRPV .223 gun. It has produced really small groups using Berger 80 gr bullets, so who knows?
Good luck.

[Luke45]

This is one of my favorite subjects. You didn't state what your goals are (strictly punching paper I assume). Replying generally and from a hunting (or rather killing) standpoint, I prefer speed, and lots of it. Some dismiss hydrostatic shock as hokum but I am a firm believer in it as I have witnessed it time and time again. I believed the crowd that shunned the practice usually used the "bullet blowing up" and lack of penetration as a talking point. AND they would be right if I was talking about a 40 grain varmint bullet out of a 220 Swift. I am referring to a controlled expansion bullet driven as fast as possible. Back when Barnes made them, I loaded 110gr for my 300 WinMag, and 100gr for my brother's 7mmMag. No tracking involved. I also have shot foru Whitetails with my 458 WinMag with 510gr bullets. No noticed reaction, or tissue damage when found. It got the job done of course, but I want quick painless kills.

I hope I didn't completely sidetrack your question, but speed, always.

Lightning speed with a controlled expansion bullet do kill quick at relative short distances!!! bang flop. Ive also seen similar kills with low velocity heavy for caliber frangible bullets (amax, vld, ect.) Hydrostatic shock is real, ive seen multiple animals instantly die from double lung shots without even a bone hit, looks like their brain just turned off from the massive tissue damage.

[scope eye]

Mr Blue Dog I would like to buy you a Beer, I have been advocating this approach for years, Hydrostatic shock there is nothing like it.

Dean

[Luke45]

Mr Blue Dog I would like to buy you a Beer, I have been advocating this approach for years, Hydrostatic shock there is nothing like it.

Dean

Ive always found it funny when people hunt deer with slow heavy jacketed deep penetrating bullets, because they want better "blood trails" for tracking animals. with hydrostatic shock (high speed OR frangible bullet) there is no such thing as tracking an animal, they die before they hit the ground.

[scope eye]

With some of those heavy bullets they use on deer, you would think they are hunting Bison or water Buffalo in the plains of the Serengeti.

Dean

[jerry shaw]

Well, with a .45-70 I know he's going to stay killed.
just kidding.

[yobuck]

The mans question related to a 223. For his use id agree a 50/55 gr bullet would be heavy enough.
For me, it would always be heavy enough because beyond about 300 yds i wont be using a 223.
Im all in favor of velocity, but at some point weight/bc with good velocity will rule.

[Luke45]

Im all in favor of velocity, but at some point weight/bc with good velocity will rule.
yep that sums it up

[eddiesindian]

whats the twist rate?