Scope to Bore Alignment

[tmc243]

This may be hard to explain so bear with me.
I purchased a new Savage rifle 11FCNS in a .260 Remington. I hand loaded 20 rounds with a conservative load and some 120 grain sierra bullets that I already had. I went to the gun range with the intentions of breaking in the barrel and just getting the gun on paper. My normal procedure for sighting in is to center the target while looking down the bore and align the scope. I’ve done this probably 30-40 times and have always had good success with it. I have always been on the paper at 100 yards. I put up 2 targets side by side ( the targets are about 15 inches wide by 18 inches so I have a 30 x 18 total area) aligned everything and began the breaking in procedure. I wasn’t hitting the paper! Not a major concern as my # goal was to get the breaking procedure completed so I could work on what I wanted to reload. I figured I just didn’t get everything lined up just right. I shot a few rounds cleaning in between and then tried aligning everything again, still no luck. I tried shooting at the top middle of the target, bottom middle, middle left edge, right edge, all 4 corners....to make a long story short I ended up holding a foot and half above the target (on my 17th shot) and hit the target about 3 inches from the bottom, I moved the scope up 18 inches (not clicks but inches!) and hit the target still 6 inches low. Moved the scope up another 6 inches and now I was about right height wise, I was about 2 inches to the right but that was easy to correct. Once I was hitting the paper all the scope adjustments were as they should be so I’m pretty sure that is not a problem. By now I’m out of ammo but I just had to check....so I pulled the bolt again and lined the bore up with the target then looked through the scope, the scope is just slightly right of center and about a foot below the target (not the bull’s eye below the whole target). If anyone has ever seen or heard of this, or has any possible explanation please let me know as I am baffled.

[barrel-nut]

Sadly there have been several threads similar to yours in recent years. One in particular that i remember, was as badly off as yours is. Unfortunately I don't recall the exact details of how he got his problem resolved, but I'm pretty sure he ended up sending it back to the factory. That may be your (best?) option. Otherwise, if you don't want to send it back, it sounds like installing a 20 MOA rail mount would put you back to very close to center on your scope settings, although this would do nothing to fix the underlying problem with your rifle. Burris Signature rings with the pos-align inserts would also work if you prefer traditional style rings, as would shimming under your rear scope base using these:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1548585609/burris-scope-base-shims-1240x735-package-of-10
..or homemade shims. Again, these would not fix the underlying problem, but would correct your alignment issue. You may have a bent barrel. How is it grouping?

[tmc243]

I really don't know how it is grouping as I ran out of the ammo that I had reloaded before I actually had a chance to fire a group. I can tell you that when I finally hit the paper (low) and adjusted the scope up 6 inches the bullet hit pretty much exactly 6 inches up, and then I cranked in 2 inches left (the final shot) it was very close to the same height and 2 inches to the left so I'm guessing that it won't be too bad. My real concern is will this effect the accuracy at different ranges. If it is on at 100 yards will it on at 200 or 300 yards (besides of course the correction for the distance).

One of the main reasons I bought the gun was because of the ability of the barrels to be changed out by the owner.....I was hoping not to have to do that right away though.

[Bolthead]

Sounds similar to the problem I had with my 111 30-06. Went through twenty rounds and could not hit the target at 100 yds. This was after bore sighting. Turned out that the barrel was just touching the front of the stock when it would start getting warm. Gave it a little extra clearance and the problem went away. Might want to try it with some factory ammo just to rule out the chance that the new rifle doesn't like that particular load. Good luck with it, I know it can be frustrating sometimes.

[BowNut]

I had similar problem with 12BVSS in 223. At 100 yards, bore lined up on bullseye, my scope was looking about 4 feet high and two feet to the right. BUT, the kicker was it would print a 1 inch group with hornady ammo and better with handloads.... I wound up putting a 20moa base on backwards to give me enough scope adjustment. Biggest problem was that when going to longer distance, I would have to add windage along with the elevation to keep on target. Savage said I could send it back, but I decided to got with a Criterion barrel. Problem solved and a LOT tighter chamber.

[tmc243]

Thanks for reply's. I'll get to the range this weekend and see how it does now that it's on paper.
BowNut since my windage was only off by a couple of inches hopefully I won't have too much of a problem with the windage. I'll probably end up with a Criterion barrel on mine...I'm just not sure what caliber I want yet. Once I shoot it I'll let everyone know how it does. Unfortunately this weekend I'll only have access to a 100 yard range, so I won't know about the windage.

[BowNut]

Once you get zero at 100, back up to 25 or 50 and you should be able to see any shift from vertical alignment. It will give you a little idea if its going to be bad. A set of the rings with offset inserts will help you get a lot of your scope adjustment back.
Choosing the next caliber is tough, but it wont be the last one!!!!!
Good luck.

[bandj524]

My new 2015 10fcp-sr was like yours but mine was shooting left. I would have my scope maxed out on windage and was still an inch and a half from zero at 50 yards. I'm not a big fan of gimmick rings to correct defects in manufacturing if the problem is covered under warranty. After talking with Savage I ended up sending the rifle back to savage and they did a lot of work to it and ended up scraping my old rifle and replacing it with a new one. The replacement rifle shoots great. I would send it back to them Savage Cust. service is top notch they will take great care of you. It took about 6 weeks but the end result was I now have a rifle that was pulled off the shelf and tested by the same gun smith that worked on my old rifle and shoots great.

[tmc243]

Alright I promised range results from this weekend and here they are.
I had loaded up some 120 gr. Nosler B/T, and some 140 gr. Berger VLD Hunting, all were loaded with H4350. Each load was .3 gr. Higher than the first load. I had 5 loads (3 shots each) with the Berger’s and 4 with the B/T. (I only had 12 of the B/T on hand so that’s all I could load)
I shot a load of the B/T first, no fowler’s, just started shooting. First shot was about 1 ¾” high and dead center left to right, next 2 were about 1” high and touching each other and a hair to the left (less than a click), so the total group was .934”, again first shot cold and clean barrel. Next I started shooting the Berger’s, first group was 1.104, not great but could be worse. At this point I cleaned the barrel again. Next group first shot was a little more than a 1 ½” above the next 2 so this group was 1.621”. I decided not to clean the gun any more, (this trip). Next 3 groups with the Berger’s were .288”, 1.158”, .685”. I’ve heard the Berger’s can be a little finicky, but that was a little more variance than I expected, but overall fairly happy.
Now I went back to the B/T’s, next 3 groups ran .512”, .568”, .490”. This was definitely better than expected. Keep in mind this is a dead stock hunting rifle. (Light weight barrel) Of course as soon as I got back from the range I got on line and it seems NO ONE has any of the 120 gr. Nosler’s, but that’s another problem.
Now back to the original question/problem.
I looked down the barrel/scope again after shooting and left to right is maybe 1-2 inches off but I’m still about 18 inches below the center of the target. About 6 inches below the paper with the crosshairs. All the groups with the Berger’s were about 3-3 ½” high so if I go with those I’d get some of that back.
So do I bother with trying to do anything with the warranty, or be happy that the gun shoots as well as it does?

[Hotolds442]

If it were me, it'd go back. With the alignment being a good 20" off, you're cheating yourself of any long distance shooting with that much misalignment. Don't waste any more ammo on it and let Savage correct it.

[gotcha]

If it were me, it'd go back. With the alignment being a good 20" off, you're cheating yourself of any long distance shooting with that much misalignment. Don't waste any more ammo on it and let Savage correct it. +1 .... Couldn't have said it better myself