Freedom Munitions ammo broke my rifle? Wont eject casings now.

[Mr. Spooky]

I picked up a box of 175gr HPBT and 178gr Amax reman ammo from Freedom Munitions to try through my savage 10 HS precision. I started off using some ZQi 7.62 to get zeroed, went through 20 rds, fed, extracted and ejected fine. Horrible grouping. Then switched to the 175gr HPBT from freedom. After firing I had a very stiff bolt lift and really had to slam the bolt up and back to get the round out. Went though about 10 of those then switched to Fed GMM (.5 to .75 moa groups) and it was fine. Next was the Freedom 178gr Amax. Same thing. Very stiff bolt lift and very hard to extract. A couple of time the bolt would not move back at all. But with some force it would finally pull back. I tried another round of the 178gr and this time there was no way the bolt was pulling back. I tried once more with a kind of slam the rifle and pull back on the bolt method and the bolt came back but the casing was still in the chamber, (was I not supposed to do that?). I used a cleaning rod to tap the casing out. Problem is now it will not eject shell casings. Just pulls them straight out and it lays on the mag.

Any ideas on what happened and why it wont eject now? Over pressure? They did have a stout recoil compared to the Fed GMM 168s. I was looking at the extractor and I was pushing on it and it moved up and exposed a ball and spirng? Is it supposed to do that with just finger pressure? The ejector seems really weak also. If you need any pics of anything in particular let me know and I will get them ASAP.

If it helps here are some pics of the bolt:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/556FMJ/IMG_0085_zps6ewu73xc.jpg

and ammo:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/556FMJ/IMG_0087_zps934mygws.jpg

Thanks for any help, Mike

[Hotolds442]

If the ejector "seems weak" it probably is. Replace the spring and the ejector (Savage now has an upgraded one) and you should be on your way.

While you're ordering parts, you might as well order an extractor spring and ball (the ball has also been upgraded by the factory)

Stiff bolt lift and ejection is a warning sign to stop right there, not an indication to keep firing as if nothing's wrong. The ammo didn't do as much damage as continued use of said ammo.......

[jpdown]

Man, you like living on the edge! After the first two hot loads, I would have stopped. You're lucky you got the stuck case out of the chamber. You've most likely ruined the ejector and extractor springs. I would order a Savage bolt head kit from Gun Shack and replace all the parts. I keep a spare kit in my gun box since I had the same thing happen one hot day in August shooting PDogs when I didn't keep my loads in a cool, shady place.

http://www.gunshack.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25&product_id=645

[Mr. Spooky]

Thanks for the help, I will order those parts up and swap them out and hopefully that fixes the problem. In hindsight I should have stopped firing but yeah... live and learn.

[wingspar]

I’ve shot thousands of rounds of Freedom Munitions with zero problems... That is until I bought a Savage Hog Hunter in .308 and started shooting FM Reman 168 grain A-Max. No problems for the first few boxes, but the last two boxes I bought were ugly. They replaced the first one with an uglier box. After an inspection of the last box, I returned it. No way was I going to shoot any of that junk thru my rifle. FM’s CS is very easy to deal with, but they are currently having some serious issues with their .308 ammo. See the photo below. Notice the mouth of two of the rounds and notice the damage to the bullet in all of the rounds. During the time I was having problems with the FM ammo, I started reloading .308 myself. What I’ve learned thru reloading my own has been invaluable. In checking OAL of the last box of FM ammo, I got OAL’s that were all over the place varying as much as 0.020. Does any of your ammo look like my photo below? Can you post photos of unfired rounds? Do you have some calipers to measure the OAL with?

http://www.pbase.com/wingspar/image/160221325/original.jpg

[wingspar]

Thanks for the help, I will order those parts up and swap them out and hopefully that fixes the problem. In hindsight I should have stopped firing but yeah... live and learn.

The parts should fix your gun, but they won’t fix the ammo problem. I would not shoot any more of that ammo. If you have any left, you should contact Freedom Munitions and tell them of your problem. They will send you a UPS return label to return the ammo to them and either replace it or refund your money. Their customer service is excellent. I think they are having some serious issues with their .308 ammo at this point in time, and it would benefit them and their customers to hear about the problems some of us are having.

It would only be a guessing game for any of us on the forum to say what happened, but the issue could be incorrectly sized brass, or a high pressure issue. Are there any cracks in the empties and was the bolt hard to close when you first put the rounds in the chamber?

[Mr. Spooky]

The parts should fix your gun, but they won’t fix the ammo problem. I would not shoot any more of that ammo. If you have any left, you should contact Freedom Munitions and tell them of your problem. They will send you a UPS return label to return the ammo to them and either replace it or refund your money. Their customer service is excellent. I think they are having some serious issues with their .308 ammo at this point in time, and it would benefit them and their customers to hear about the problems some of us are having.

It would only be a guessing game for any of us on the forum to say what happened, but the issue could be incorrectly sized brass, or a high pressure issue. Are there any cracks in the empties and was the bolt hard to close when you first put the rounds in the chamber?

No cracks on the empties. The primers might be slightly flattened and cratered, but I am no expert. All my rounds looked ok visually. The bolt was harder to close on the Freedom stuff vs all the other 308s I fired. After looking at some rounds I chambered vs unchambered while I checking for rifling marks on the bullets I noticed there is a compression mark on the chambered rounds. Right where the neck meets the bullet. Brass too long? The 178s were all between 2.793 to 2.799 OAL. The Freedom 175HPBT was also stiff to close the bolt and hard to extract but not nearly as bad as the 178's.

I contacted Freedom on Sunday via email but still have not heard back. It does not really matter at this point since I have decided not to use any of their ammo again (was going to order 1k rnds of the ones my rifle liked best). Its a shame because the first 4rnd group I shot with the 178gr Amax produced a .30 MOA group at 100 yards but does me no good if it jams my rifle up. Going to stick with factory fresh ammo until I start reloading.

Here is a pic of the chambered vs unchambered rounds. Chambered on left.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v95/556FMJ/IMG_0090_zpsg7lfzdgq.jpg

[earl39]

Can you measure the brass of the unfired rounds? It should measure 2.015 give or take a couple thousands

[Mr. Spooky]

Freedoms are looking to be 2.010 with my harbor freight digital calipers. Some black hills i measured are 2.014.

[earl39]

The brass is short enough. Might want to take a look at your chamber if the ring on the end of the brass was put there when you chambered the round. It looks almost like a crimp. Might be you have a small piece of neck stuck in the chamber.

[Mr. Spooky]

Strange that it leaves no marks on the Black Hills brass but it does it with the Freedom.

[earl39]

Try micing (sp) the outside of the neck and compare it to the black hills. Maybe you have a tight neck or could be the black hills is a little thin at the end and combined with a slight ridge in the chamber neck is causing a pinch.

[Mr. Spooky]

the black hills is a little thinner. Maybe since Freedom uses nato brass? Thought I read somewhere that the nato brass is thicker? Although the federal xm80 chambered and extracted smooth. I shot zqi 7.62, federal xm80, perfecta 308, fgmm, black hills and the freedom was the only ones with stiff clambering and really sticky extraction.

guess my rifle just doesn't like the stuff.

[wingspar]

I went thru more than 100 rounds of Freedom Munitions .308 before I started having problems with it. I still have a couple of unopened boxes I’ve had for a while. I’d like to think they will resolve the problems they are having with the .308 if they haven’t already. I should have got their attention with the photos I sent them and the two boxes of ammo I returned about 3 weeks apart.

That chambered round in your photo looks weird cause it’s symmetrical. No idea what could have caused that.

[jonbearman]

I would find someone with a borescope to look at your chamber to make sure nothing is wrong there first and secondly would not use cheap reman ammo in any rifle. The only reman I would use is black hills.

[barefooter56]

Mr. Spooky,
By the "crimp ring" on the case neck on the left. I would say that those rounds are not trimmed back enough for your chamber. You are crimping the case mouth even tighter and that is raising your pressures significantly ! Strip a round and compare one to rounds that you have full length sized and trimmed.