Long Range School

[DrThunder88]

I've got a hankering to do some long range shooting with my Axis build, but the problem, apart from not having a long range on which to shoot, is that I have no experience other than watching some Tiborosaurus Rex videos on YouTube. I figure going to a school would address both of my problems and would like to know if anyone had any suggestions. I'm not looking for extreme long range shooting by any means, probably out to 1000 yards or thereabouts. I am located in Metro Detroit but am willing to travel by car for a day or so, so I can make something of a road trip out of it.

One option I found is BangSteel.com, which would be a schlep but not unreasonably so. Still, any closer or better options would be welcome.

[darkker]

You just asked "what do I want in a woman"....

Here is the thing, many of us taught ourselves to shoot, so, you can to. Take ANY YouTube video with a grain of salt, or anywhere else online.

I shoot 55-gal drum lids at a mile with a few rifles, none cost over $850, even if you add the optics and dies...
What you need to do is practice!! And pay attention to everything you do. Shoot when it's nice, shoot when it's not nice. MOST problems are that people don't know their system.
Their trigger sucks, their trigger control is worse, they don't know ballistics, or how to adjust their scope.

Knowing EXACTLY when the trigger breaks; knowing when it was your loads, or you that botched the results, can't be bought, just learned.

Just start shooting, A LOT; and it will come to you.

[upSLIDEdown]

That's a lot of good advice in a very short post.

I will say, however, that Dan and the guys at Bangsteel have a great place to shoot, and are very knowledgeable. I've never taken one of their classes, but I shoot matches there on a semi-regular basis. It's great place, with great people. I don't think you'd be disappointed.

[DrThunder88]

darkker, I understand where you're coming from, and I respect what you say. In fact, I have taught myself to shoot. I've not won any awards (well, a few, but they were for fairly informal competitions), but I can do pretty well at the 100 yard ranges near me. The problem is that I only have 100 yard ranges near my home in expanding suburbia. There is only one public 200 yard range anywhere close to my home and that's it. Anywhere else would be an extended day-trip at least to get out and back, assuming I could get access in the first place. While a day-trip to go shooting sounds like fun, it's not a feasible weekend plan for me when I'm on the midnight shift and working weekends.

A class would provide me with some of the things that I figure are critical to doing any long range shooting: access to an adequate range, structured and goal-oriented practice to save on gas and ammo and barrel life, and a concise timeframe I can schedule into a vacation. I may never shoot at long ranges again. That's another possibility, and if it happens to be the case, I'd like to not make major life changes to accommodate a pastime that I might not stick with.

[upSLIDEdown]

If you end up at Bangsteel, and have gear that's capable of doing it, I can pretty much guarantee you'll ring steel at 1k yards by the end of the day.

[yobuck]

I dont disagree with either Darkker or Upslidedown but tend to agree with Darkker.
How far would you need to travel for the class your considering?
What is the approximate cost of the class?
Do you furnish your own gun or do they furnish everything?
Do you have a gun like say a 308 or a 260 with a good scope with target knobs?
Do you have or could you create an elevation chart that would be (ball park) accurate to the distance your contemplating?
What equiptment other than the gun and scope do you feel is necessary to accomplish your goal of say 1000 yds at a place where the distance is known like a range?

[darkker]

1)The problem is that I only have 100 yard ranges near my home in expanding suburbia. There is only one public 200 yard range anywhere close to my home and that's it.
2)While a day-trip to go shooting sounds like fun, it's not a feasible weekend plan for me when I'm on the midnight shift and working weekends.

3)A class would provide me with some of the things that I figure are critical to doing any long range shooting: access to an adequate range, structured and goal-oriented practice to save on gas and ammo and barrel life, and a concise timeframe I can schedule into a vacation. I may never shoot at long ranges again. That's another possibility, and if it happens to be the case, I'd like to not make major life changes to accommodate a pastime that I might not stick with.

I don't disagree with any of that, simply consider what your protests are, viewed in another light; Considering becoming proficient at very long distance.

1) While 1-200 yards won't show your shortcomings in as large a mannor, this is perfect to be able to hone your skills. Trigger control, and consistency is learned any time you shoot; assuming you are trying to learn and not just shoot. Lets you fool with optics and multiple loadings and monitor the changes.
2) True, but back to learning through repetition. Going to a school, but never practicing those skills; is the same as never practicing your technique on your own.
3) This is a mess of conflicts. If scheduling vacation is a life altering thing for you, then why would it matter if that is scheduled for you to take time to practice, or go to a school? That is a distinction without a difference. Practice is the key here, be it at a class, or on your own. Planning a trip on your own to shoot with a schedule in mind or having it planned in school, neither will cause any extra heartache.

While it can be a hard pill to swallow for some, Barrels are a consumable. If barrel life is a real concern with any standard chambering, then the only logical recourse is to never shoot in the first place. As long as you aren't shooting in a very rapid fire method, with an overbore animal; barrel life won't significantly decline. You never said what you are shooting, but as an example, The 308 will be more accurate than most people can be, for around 10,000 rounds, again assuming that you are not cooking the barrel. The 30-06 went through multiple 14,000 round tests with the military, staying under 2 moa. Several very serious match shooters, who get things very hot, will have a Creedmoor last until around 3,000 rounds. Most folks likely won't ever shoot 1,000 rounds anyway, at least if they are primarily hunters.

I think if you want to go to a school, that you should! I think if you think you MUST to be able to be proficient, you will be disappointed. Regardless of how you learn the skills needed, you absolutely HAVE to practice to be proficient. So either way you will need to invest some time, whether or not you choose to stick with it, is your call down the road.

You can always change your mind, I'm suggesting taking the least-cost approach to trying something new. If you do it on your own, you won't be out as much money and can decide if it is something that you want to invest in more heavily later.

[limige]

lets put it this way, if you can put down .300 groups at 100 yrds 1000 yrds won't be hard. I would shoot for sub .5 at 100 myself. other than that like he said range time is hard to beat. you will want a good scope and a 20 moa rail for what your looking at. bedded, pillared and a nice trigger. go through your gun before wasting ammo. make sure you use a torque wrench and make sure the base and rings are good, bedding is good and the barrel, nut and tang are floated and it can save you big headaches.

[limige]

oh btw, midland has a 600 yrd range and holds F class shoots.
mtc in lake city has a 1000 yrds range
those are the two I know of

[yobuck]

Well i wouldnt say shooting well at 1000 yds is easy. But i will say its easier than many think it is.
Its also something that can be learned and done pretty well by most average looking people who dedicate
themselves to doing it. Thats not saying everybody who does it like anything else for that matter
has equal ability.
It seems that now days longrange shooting schools are popping up all over. Just as have other things unheard of untill recently.
Funny thing is of all the very good shooters ive known over many years, none ever attended one.
Make up your mind that some are run by people who are trying to sell things. Like custom built guns for example.
You cant hate somebody who is trying to promote himself and his work by doing these type things.
And at the same time some can come away knowing more than before they went.
Id personally be joining a club where this is being done. Then observe who the shooters are and who the b srs are.

[upSLIDEdown]

Well i wouldnt say shooting well at 1000 yds is easy. But i will say its easier than many think it is.
Its also something that can be learned and done pretty well by most average looking people who dedicate
themselves to doing it. Thats not saying everybody who does it like anything else for that matter
has equal ability.
It seems that now days longrange shooting schools are popping up all over. Just as have other things unheard of untill recently.
Funny thing is of all the very good shooters ive known over many years, none ever attended one.
Make up your mind that some are run by people who are trying to sell things. Like custom built guns for example.
You cant hate somebody who is trying to promote himself and his work by doing these type things.
And at the same time some can come away knowing more than before they went.
Id personally be joining a club where this is being done. Then observe who the shooters are and who the b srs are.


This is all very good info and very true.

I will say, from knowing firsthand, that Dan and the guys at Bangsteel are not out to sell rifles or anything else. The atmosphere there is probably not 'school-like' at all.

Still waiting to hear what kind of rifle/caliber/optics/ammo/setup the OP has.

[DrThunder88]

Savage Axis
-Shilen pre-fit varmint contour .243 Win 1-8
-Shimmed and trimmed trigger
-Pillared and bedded Boyds Tacticool stock

Optics
-Primary Arms 4-14x44 FFP Mil/Mil
-UTG "Max Strength" 30mm rings
-EGW 20MOA Picatinny rail

Load
-Berger 115gr VLD Hunting seated touching the lands
-45.2gr H1000
-Hornady brass
-WLR primer

[yobuck]

I would suggest you visit the Ridgeway rifle club website. There you can pull up various pictures of the facilities including the ranges.
Observe the range and envision placing clay targets on the berms at various distances. Then taking a position at a bench and shooting
at the clay birds for the rest of the day if you like. There would no doubt be similar ranges closer to where you live.
Another option and even more enjoyable would be to take some time and go on a prarie dog hunt someplace.
For sure by the time you return you will have had lots of practice dialing the scope, holding off for wind and all other things you might encounter in that type shooting.
N E Wyoming is a very good area and WY has no licence requirments for p dogs. Neither does Montana and that isnt much further to drive. S Dakota would be of coarse
closer but im told its getting expensive due to licencing and the fees for the indians in many areas. There just cant be a more relaxed and fun way to learn to shoot this way.

[Stockrex]

lets put it this way, if you can put down .300 groups at 100 yrds 1000 yrds won't be hard. I would shoot for sub .5 at 100 myself. other than that like he said range time is hard to beat. you will want a good scope and a 20 moa rail for what your looking at. bedded, pillared and a nice trigger. go through your gun before wasting ammo. make sure you use a torque wrench and make sure the base and rings are good, bedding is good and the barrel, nut and tang are floated and it can save you big headaches.

if you have trigger control and consistency then add to that wind reading ability.
you need to have consistent ammo too. at those distances any variations in you bullet speed will be magnified and POI will change.

buy some books on each topic or research on internet and edumercate you self before heading out to Stevie Wonder's Motown Sharp Shooting School.

[DrThunder88]

Well, it was an idea, but it looks like I was barking up the wrong tree. Thanks to everyone for the input.

[limige]

well, shooting 1k and shooting good groups at 1k are two different things. but if you can keep groups under .3 at 100 then you should have trigger control and such figured out. that leaves learning to read the wind. which is what everyone is learning to do shooting at 1k. even experienced guys can have a tough time some days.

[yobuck]

If you shoot at the same locations frequently you can evaluate how things look today compared to the last time you were there.
But if your not a frequent shooter at the same locations its more difficult evaluating wind. That can be further complicated when
shooting across wide deep valleys especially with large streams. Quite often thermals are encountered in this type situation.
If youve ever gone to a 1000 yd match just to observe, you will find wind flags placed at various locations to assist the shooters while shooting.
But when the record target goes up many shooters will have all 10 shots downrange in less than 1 minit. If you dont believe that i suggest
you go watch a match. The reason for them doing that is so that they dont get caught with a wind change after they fired their last sighter.
So in fact many of the very best 1000 yd shooters deal with the wind by finding ways not to deal with it.
I personaly feel much of what is said by many people regarding wind reading ability is just plain B S. Send one over there and see what happens
is the best way to read wind. Of coarse all the website experts who always make first round hits will jump all over me for saying that.
Ive also never seen a 1000 yd target shooter rely on things like wind meters and I phone programs to get themselves zeroed for the match.
They always take sighter shots even if they shot earlier in the same day. Yet we are supposed to believe there are people who can make consistant first round
hits while laying on their belly on a cactus plant at pretty extreme distances.
You guys can be the expert wind callers, ill take sighter shots. That wasent a miss, it was a sighter shot lol

[darkker]

Stevie Wonder's Motown Sharp Shooting School.

...Totally stealing this

[upSLIDEdown]

Well, it was an idea, but it looks like I was barking up the wrong tree. Thanks to everyone for the input.

Maybe the wrong tree for some people, but I still think it's a good idea. Especially looking at your gear. Sounds like a fine setup. As long as you have trigger control down, and can shoot tight groups at 100, I think it's a great idea. I shoot an Axis in 6.5 Creedmoor, bedded in a Boyds stock, and it hurts a lot of people's feelings when match day comes. I have a buddy that went to one of their 'wind class/practice shoots' the day before a match and had never shot further than 300yds. He was on target at 1100 at the end of the day. If you want any more insight or info on Bangsteel, feel free to PM me.