MkII FVSR ammo test (lots of ammo involved)

[Lorenzo]

Also in regards to the post about cleaning. I used to be an obsessive cleaner of my .17 hmr and was wondering why I couldnt get a decent group. Then I stopped cleaning after every outing. groups tightened up. Same with my mkII, at around 6-700 rounds the groups started opening up very noticeably all with the same ammo the whole time, cleaned ran about a box of 50 maybe more and it was back to the best I've seen it shoot. This is a factory savage barrel on a 220$ gun with a 100$ stock. Not exactly an Anschuntz. So perhaps the constant cleaning does work for the real match guys but that has not been my personal experience but as always I am will to experiment to find the best accuracy At this point I dont think Ill be buying anything other than CCI unless I need the Eley for some shorter range match type stuff. Believe it or not but I put one in a Pdogs brain stem from 168 yards (lazed) but I will admit there was an element of luck to that. I've only had this gun a couple of months though so we shall see. Once I get my 20 MOA rail. Pdogs watch out.

[justinp61]

Also in regards to the post about cleaning. I used to be an obsessive cleaner of my .17 hmr and was wondering why I couldnt get a decent group. Then I stopped cleaning after every outing. groups tightened up. Same with my mkII, at around 6-700 rounds the groups started opening up very noticeably all with the same ammo the whole time, cleaned ran about a box of 50 maybe more and it was back to the best I've seen it shoot. This is a factory savage barrel on a 220$ gun with a 100$ stock. Not exactly an Anschuntz. So perhaps the constant cleaning does work for the real match guys but that has not been my personal experience but as always I am will to experiment to find the best accuracy At this point I dont think Ill be buying anything other than CCI unless I need the Eley for some shorter range match type stuff. Believe it or not but I put one in a Pdogs brain stem from 168 yards (lazed) but I will admit there was an element of luck to that. I've only had this gun a couple of months though so we shall see. Once I get my 20 MOA rail. Pdogs watch out.

I clean my BTVLSS when accuracy starts to fall off.

[Bang]

If testing compatibility of .22LR ammos, I don't re-zero. I don't care where the group groups. The bullseye is just a way of aiming at the same point and repeating a sight picture at let-off.

Sometimes I won't even hang a target (50 yards). I'll find and fire at a single hole in the backer, or create one. If by some really odd and crazy confluence of circumstances a remarkable group presents, it can always be photographed.

[Bang]

Seems if a bore needs 50 rounds through it to come up to accurate then deteriorates over additional shooting, the bore is inferior.

Some bores are very smooth in the grooves, some look like whoops on a motocross track. A box of 50 to fill in the depressions is a temporary fix. Sufficient for casual shooting, totally a killer if seriously competing, or if eating depends on accuracy.

[Lorenzo]

i re-zeroed just because I wanted to and I totally understand what your saying. A group is a group just keep the same POA. Well like I said as much as I love the gun it is a 220$ gun. I see barrels that cost more than that so take from that what you will. I am not saying I had to put 50 rounds through it for it to be accurate thats just what I did based on my experience with my .17. I would imagine that these savage off the shelf barrels are inferior compared to a high end after market barrel. But they shoot almost as good with some fouling and continue to do so after many hundreds of rounds. Just my experience. Also the fact that .22s shoot copper jacketed and not jacketed lead bullets makes then different that most centerfire guns in my eyes.

https://youtu.be/rW6SF-jlbkg

this video I found informative. Also in the Art of the Precision Rifle Todd Hoddnet mentions only removing carbon and using only mpro7 on center fire rifles and that after removing the copper bearing surface his Surgeon rifle need 42 rounds to go from a 2 minute gun back down to sub .5 minute gun. I am not trying to argue with you just sharing my results. I am open to trying and challenging anything in the spirit of accuracy so don't think I'm just blindly following others. As I have said before Ive only had the gun a couple months and will continue to experiment. it seems to me that you are emotionally invested in this topic some how and are trying to turn an experiment into an argument which doesn't make much sense to me. Either way from what I've seen online from guys that spend pretty big money totally customizing their .22s they really don't shoot that much better than my stock savage with a boyds stock. I believe its mostly the shooter, the rest is very important but it comes down to mastery of fundamentals. I will be doing some more tests with the mini mags, mini mag HP and stingers asap.

[Lorenzo]

Another extremely informative article. Probably the most in depth yet on rimfire cleaning.

http://www.rrdvegas.com/rimfire-cleaning.html

[Bang]

No need to be concerned that I may think you are arguing. It's discussion and a learning curve (a lifetime adventure) to me. Please be assured of that.
I was passing on information I have read re filling in bad spots improving accuracy. High-end barrels have little or no need of such (actually a bit of a presumption on my part).
I'm still shooting 6 different ammos (well, 4..ran out of two). Odd inconsistencies are the puzzle. Such as I have had groups with brick Rem Golden Bullet that equal expensive Rem-Eley lub Xtra. But then the RGB group may open up a bit next time. I am also impressed with CCI Standard Velocity, having made notation that it's the best deal for the dollar so far. The real challenge is my doing everything right every time...which makes me wish I had a machine rest to ascertain just what is the best ammo. But then the lots can change, one ammo may be great at 88 degrees ambient and 55 degrees may mean find a different one. Boing boing boing.....it's a conspiracy so we'll keep buying and trying, like fishing lures catch fishermen.

[Bang]

Here is a great treatise on small bore group analysis:

http://rifleman.org.uk/Fuller_group_diagnosis.htm

[justinp61]

Lorenzo, thanks for the links. I found it interesting in the video that one of the guys states if your rifle takes more than one or two shots to come back in you're cleaning it too much.

[Lorenzo]

I find the CCI standard velocity really is the best bang for the buck, it was as consistent or maybe ever a little more than the brick of Norma Match. Your really right about the temp and doing everything the same on the gun each shot. That really is the biggest thing. If I start shooting without really keeping that in mind I shoot like crap lol.

[Lorenzo]

Here is a great treatise on small bore group analysis:

http://rifleman.org.uk/Fuller_group_diagnosis.htm

sweet article thanks.

[Bang]

Well, I've sent over 500 rounds through this pipe across 50 yards divided by 18 power and have been gnashing my teeth at the size and randomness of the groups. A one-inch spread is normal, so is three or four very close together with the rogue that screws it up.

Yesterday at 94 degrees and no wind I shot at my usual home-made target consisting of twelve 3/4" blue sticky dots on 8-1/2 by 11 white copy paper. I tried several different ways of holding the rifle and of touching only the trigger and trigger guard (with my thumb). Front end on a padded scissors jack, heel on a V bag. I finally got a group of five in .359". A random success, indeed, but the rifle did it, so it has given me a huge lift of spirit and appreciation for the rifle.

Now here's the kicker....I was shooting the 525 brick of Federal Golden Bullets, 36 grain brass-plated hollow point generally viewed as junk! Also, the spring I had in the trigger yields a let-off of about 12 ounces. It is so light, the bolt sometimes does not cock...the sear slips to the safe notch on closing. Happens maybe once in 30 rotations. Apachee set-up is future plan.

And the beat goes on....

[justinp61]

If you haven't changed the bottom metal I'd recommend that too along with the Apachee trigger kit. I seem to shoot better groups using squares for targets, I aim at the corner.

[Bang]

I made my own plate of 1/8" thick aluminum. The extra-special steel plate on the Boyd's stock was bending with only 15 in-lbs torque. I agree about the squares and bracketing one corner. I think I'll try that again. Thanks!

[Bang]

Bought a box of 50 Gemtech .22LR subsonic at the Oaks gun show to try out in the Savage Mark II.


Impressive. Looked up Gemtech and found they are manufacturers of suppressors and have a line of subsonics as well.


Turns out these Gemtech .22LR are made by CCI. Interesting, as CCI standard velocity LR is the one of the cartridges my Mk II shoots best. The Gemtech bullet is 42 grains.


And the beat goes on….