Pacific Tool and Gauge bolt heads

[J.Baker]

I went ahead and made this a sticky as it seems every time I turn around we're having this discussion about the so-called benefits of the PT&G bolt heads. Now if we can just get Fred to expound on why the PT&G oversize bolt bodies are a bad idea I could sticky it as well and finally put an end to the infectious spread of PT&G parts misinformation. lol

[LongRange]

I went ahead and made this a sticky as it seems every time I turn around we're having this discussion about the so-called benefits of the PT&G bolt heads. Now if we can just get Fred to expound on why the PT&G oversize bolt bodies are a bad idea I could sticky it as well and finally put an end to the infectious spread of PT&G parts misinformation. lol

id also like to hear from Fred about the bolt bodies.

[ironworkerwill]

The tumbling process is also what creates the slight dish in the factory bolt faces, and the elimination of the dish is the ONLY advantage an off the shelf PT&G bolt head would have over a factory one. This is my understanding as well. I cut the shank off of an old bolt face, I assure you it is not powdered metal, MIM, ect. It's very tuff stuff! Articles such as this one, is the partial root of the misinformation:http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/06/new-product-high-quality-ptg-bolt-heads-for-savage-bolts/

[jonbearman]

I wish Fred could further explain why he doesn't think the ptg bolt heads are not as strong as the factory ones which is what I use in my rifles but wondered what the difference was between them.

[foxx]

Jon, look at #20 above. He says they aren't stronger or weaker. They are essentially same material, etc.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

I was going to say the same thing about post # 20 but I figured it better if someone else mentioned it. Pretty obvious to me.

[jcat]

I had extraction problems with my 110BA for about 2 years. I sent it back to Savage 2 times and they worked on it, but did not fix the problem.
I bought a bolt head from Pacific tool (took 4 months to receive it), had is installed, check the head spacing, and compared the savage and the pacific bolt heads.

The savage was off in size from one side to the other about .02, the pacific was dead on, side to side.
I have run 200 rounds through the rifle since then and have not had 1 piece of brass fail to extract.

Some have said the Hornady Brass is too soft, for me it was a bolt head that was not made correctly.

[Mozella]

I can only go on looks at the moment. I bought a Pacific bolt face for my Savage Target action because of a caliber change. The factory Savage part looked like it was made by a kid in Juarez with a rock and an old file. It has a big ding on the edge of the face where the metal is actually peened over and standing proud of the face. Perhaps it was dropped or something, but it looks more like it was hit (hard) with something. If it was dropped, it was onto a very hard unyielding surface and from a considerable height.

On the other hand, the Pacific part looks like a real gun component. Nicely machined and finished. I don't yet know how it will function, but I'm glad I spent a few extra bucks based on looks alone.

[zap]

I put one on my target action( 6.5x47 ) and model 12 bvss .223. I had cratering on primers with both rifles. The cratering went away on both rifles when I installed them.

[Mozella]

I bought a PTG head for my Savage 12 which I converted to 6mm BR Norma. The bolt head is very nice looking; however, the diameter of the recess in the bolt face where the cartridge base fits is larger than the Savage factory part. The Savage part ejects the rounds properly. The PTG part, because it's larger, just drops the case in the receiver during extraction just as the case neck clears the chamber and I have to fish out the case by hand EVERY time. I contacted PTG about it and they said send it back. I sent them the dimensions, explaining that their part is significantly different from the Savage factory bolt face and asked if that was "normal" or not. In other words, did they possibly send me the wrong part or are all their "standard" (.473" diameter case base) bolt faces like the one they sent me.

That's important because if the part is the wrong one, I'd like to exchange it. On the other hand, if all the PTG bolt faces are made to the incorrect dimensions, then exchanging one bad part for another bad part makes no sense. The reason I wanted to find out about this is because I use this gun in competition and I hate for it to be out of commission any length of time. Plus, if I have to swap the factory bolt face in and then out again once I get the replacement part, that means I have to disassemble my rifle and set the head space twice rather than just once. I'd prefer to do it just once.

I even volunteered to purchase a second part and then get a refund later if they were worried about the value. Asking if the part dimensions I had on hand were the same as all the PTG heads or if mine was an error on their part which could be corrected was not an unreasonable request, at least in my view. Apparently PTG disagrees. "Send it back" is not what I wanted to hear, but now PTG refuses to answer my inquires about how to fix this problem.

Bottom line: They make nice looking parts and I have no doubt some of them function properly. But the one they sold me is defective and it doesn't work properly; i.e. it's unsatisfactory. Furthermore, they won't tell me if mine is unusual or if all their Savage 6mm (standard) bolt faces are made to the wrong dimension, in which case I would be wasting my time to exchange it. In other words, not only do PTG parts, in this instance anyway, suck, their customer service sucks too.

[foxx]

Yeah, in this case, their attitude seems to be as if you're only talking about a $50 item when, in fact, that one little part is affecting a $1,200-2,000 "system" and a large part of your shooting season. It shouldn't be that big a hassle for them to confirm the dimensions of the part they would be sending you to replace it. Even if the one you have would maybe work fine in another rifle, the fact it doesn't work in yours, and therefore you need a smaller one should justify their effort to find one or at least confirm that they don't have what you need.

[Dennis]

They're talking about bolt heads, not bolt bodies. Other than the custom sizes the only advantage is if your factory bolt head has a flaw of some type causing issues. Some call Savage to get it replaced, some call PTG. Savage requires an FFL or waiver in order to ship these parts though I believe. Sometimes you can just contact Numrich and get the part you need even quicker though.

I agree with LoneWolf, the bolt head has to be strong whoever it comes from. Bolt bodies are a different story.

Dennis

[B Coz 312]

Do they make them for older 110 models? I need a bolt head for a pre-1999 110 Tactical 300 Win Mag. If anyone here knows where I can get one would be grateful for the help. Savage told they do not have it only the newer models. Brownells, Midway, and Numrich have all been a no go on finding it.

thanks in advance.
B Coz

[Ratbuster]

I put one on my target action( 6.5x47 ) and model 12 bvss .223. I had cratering on primers with both rifles. The cratering went away on both rifles when I installed them.


Same for me...cratering with the stock .223 bolt head was eliminated with a new PT&G head

[Newbe]

Same for me...cratering with the stock .223 bolt head was eliminated with a new PT&G head

I'm also fighting this with my V11 .223

I've modified the firing pin a little (flattened the tip a bit) and though it has helped, there is still some flashing around the firing pin indentation on the primer.

I'm on the fence as whether to pursue the pin modification, or get a PT&G bolt head. I hadn't heard of the headspace changing till reading this, but it makes sense I guess.

[Steelhead]

I'm also fighting this with my V11 .223

I've modified the firing pin a little (flattened the tip a bit) and though it has helped, there is still some flashing around the firing pin indentation on the primer.

I'm on the fence as whether to pursue the pin modification, or get a PT&G bolt head. I hadn't heard of the headspace changing till reading this, but it makes sense I guess.


Original my 11 hunter cratered and occasionally pierced every load.
Now its GTG with the PTG bolt head.

What primer?
CCI400?

[Newbe]

Original my 11 hunter cratered and occasionally pierced every load.
Now its GTG with the PTG bolt head.

What primer?
CCI400?
CCI 400

I know I can switch to a different primer (BR4 or magnum) and the flashing will decrease or go away, but that's not really fixing the problem. These are not hot loads by any stretch.

[grouse]

No.

my gunsmith just out a ptg bolt head and a factory bolt head in the Rockwell hardness tester. PTG was harder than factory. Also savage was harder than rem 700 bolt.

[mnbogboy2]

I bought a PTG head for my Savage 12 which I converted to 6mm BR Norma. The bolt head is very nice looking; however, the diameter of the recess in the bolt face where the cartridge base fits is larger than the Savage factory part. The Savage part ejects the rounds properly. The PTG part, because it's larger, just drops the case in the receiver during extraction just as the case neck clears the chamber and I have to fish out the case by hand EVERY time. I contacted PTG about it and they said send it back. I sent them the dimensions, explaining that their part is significantly different from the Savage factory bolt face and asked if that was "normal" or not. In other words, did they possibly send me the wrong part or are all their "standard" (.473" diameter case base) bolt faces like the one they sent me.

That's important because if the part is the wrong one, I'd like to exchange it. On the other hand, if all the PTG bolt faces are made to the incorrect dimensions, then exchanging one bad part for another bad part makes no sense. The reason I wanted to find out about this is because I use this gun in competition and I hate for it to be out of commission any length of time. Plus, if I have to swap the factory bolt face in and then out again once I get the replacement part, that means I have to disassemble my rifle and set the head space twice rather than just once. I'd prefer to do it just once.

I even volunteered to purchase a second part and then get a refund later if they were worried about the value. Asking if the part dimensions I had on hand were the same as all the PTG heads or if mine was an error on their part which could be corrected was not an unreasonable request, at least in my view. Apparently PTG disagrees. "Send it back" is not what I wanted to hear, but now PTG refuses to answer my inquires about how to fix this problem.

Bottom line: They make nice looking parts and I have no doubt some of them function properly. But the one they sold me is defective and it doesn't work properly; i.e. it's unsatisfactory. Furthermore, they won't tell me if mine is unusual or if all their Savage 6mm (standard) bolt faces are made to the wrong dimension, in which case I would be wasting my time to exchange it. In other words, not only do PTG parts, in this instance anyway, suck, their customer service sucks too.

I suffered from the same experience with a PTG bolt head I purchased from classifieds in a gun forum. So I made made no argument with anyone. The PTG head was new and I paid top dollar. The measurements of the case head recess, ejector location and extractor location were all off a couple of thousandths here & there. The tolerance stack in this case caused drops. I remedied it with a new Savage head. I later fitted that head with one of my modified extractors and used it on another project. The modified extractors include moving the ball detent hole slightly outward and cutting the extractor under the case lip a smidge deeper. A couple of thousandths goes a long way to help hold on to a case till ejection is cleared.
Of coarse Savage Heads can be off in tolerance too.

[Robinhood]

I'm sorry to hear about every ones troubles. I have been happy with them.