MOA vs Mil

[BarrelNuts]

Been reading a lot on this topic since I'm shopping for glass...

One MOA is roughly 1" at 100... I know its not exactly 1" but for my purposes here it works.
One Mil is 3.6" at 100...
Most scopes on the market adjust as 1/4 MOA for those with MOA adjustments... for those with Mil adjustments the adjustment is .1 Mil

So... each click of an MOA based scope moves the POI .25 inches; each click of a Mil based scope moves the POI .36 inches

Aside from the benefit of matching a reticle which is in mils what is the apparent benefit of using Mils in a scope when MOA is a finer adjustment?
Or am I crazy?

[pdcullen]

Re-sellability for sure. I have a mil/moa swfa ss but I like math. If I wasn't trying to save a buck I would have bout mil mil, less thinking.

[pdcullen]

If you like videos:
SNIPER 101 Part 15 - Scope Turrets (1/2): https://youtu.be/ytOLj8hYqAg
SNIPER 101 Part 16 - Scope Turrets (2/2): https://youtu.be/V5to0loGVzU

[D.ID]

Don't forget: you can now get moa based reticles from many top name scopes. So you can get matching reticle and turret scopes in moa as well.
No two ways about it, the 1/4 moa is a finer adjustment than a tenth mil............your on track.
I shoot ALLOT at distance using a laser rangefinder, so............. don't much care about reticles as long as they are uncluttered and fine enough not to cover my target.
Because I use a laser and know how to dial my scope.........matching or not makes a big fat -0- diference.

[BarrelNuts]

My point is... if you can have matching MOA/MOA vs matching Mil/Mil... why would one prefer the Mil/Mil when the MOA/MOA is a finer adjustment? Assuming the exact same reticle pattern so there isn't any "I prefer this reticle over that reticle".

[dk17hmr]

Match the reticle to the adjustment. Its much easier to measure with the reticle to make adjustments that way. Like already stated 1/4 MOA is .25" roughly and .1 mil is .36" at 100 yards......I don't know many people (other than my friends that shoot benchrest) that can hold .11" difference at 100 or 1.1" at 1000 yards. I shoot both MILs and MOA at extreme distance and if anything MILs is easier for me.

[BarrelNuts]

Match the reticle to the adjustment. Its much easier to measure with the reticle to make adjustments that way. Like already stated 1/4 MOA is .25" roughly and .1 mil is .36" at 100 yards......I don't know many people (other than my friends that shoot benchrest) that can hold .11" difference at 100 or 1.1" at 1000 yards. I shoot both MILs and MOA at extreme distance and if anything MILs is easier for me.

If its easier for you then that makes sense... for me though it would seem if MOA converts much closer/easier to inches on target (1" at 100, 2" at 200 etc.) it would be easier to adjust groups on paper than trying to do the inches off target to mil conversion...

If you have a moa reticle/moa adjustments (yes, I know the difference is .11" and for all intents and purposes is nominal) which are finer than a mil/mil set up and the angle subtends closer to a linear inch at known distances... for the beginner to longer range shooting (like me) would seem that MOA would be an easier place to start

[D.ID]

If you use mils very long it will get just as easy.
It really makes no difference......pick one......(or the other) and train with it.
In the end they are both simple once you get use to it.

[dk17hmr]

If a miss is measured with your reticle and your turrets match the reticle it really doesn't matter.
Last spring I took my bosses husband out to shoot 1 mile, on the first shot he was looking through a very nice spotting scope and I and blown the wind call. Bullet impacted about 20 feet right I simply measured over with me reticle made the adjustment on my scope and shot again while he was still trying to figure out how far in feet the bullet was off the target. Don't over think it. Knowing 10" is about 1 moa at 1000 yards is nice but when you get someone completely new to spotting and they call your shots in feet and not moa.....

I cant stress it enough the biggest thing is matching your reticle to your turrets.....the debate over MOA and MILs, Ford and Chevys, Blondes and Redheads will continue, but if you can measure your shots without coming off the rifle that's really all that matters.

[Newsshooter]

Yep, what the others have said, as long as the turrets and reticle match you're good. I can't hold the .11 difference but I can tell you it is a whole lot easier to count by 10.:)

[LongRange]

a lot of guys using mil scopes do so because they are military or ex-military LE or ex-LE so they were trained using mils...and then a lot of guys using mil scopes do so because its "cool" or because they think that mils are the holy grail of scopes. get what you think is going to be best for you...im not a math major so i went MOA and i think MOA is easier for most shooters to learn and also to make fast range estimations.
if you have a cabelas,sportsmans,scheels or other big sporting goods store near you most will take you outside to look through scopes...look through several scopes and fine one you like and while looking through them try to look at small targets at 500yds or so because like D.ID said the reticle thickness is important...if its to thick it will cover small targets.

[yobuck]

If a miss is measured with your reticle and your turrets match the reticle it really doesn't matter.
Last spring I took my bosses husband out to shoot 1 mile, on the first shot he was looking through a very nice spotting scope and I and blown the wind call. Bullet impacted about 20 feet right I simply measured over with me reticle made the adjustment on my scope and shot again while he was still trying to figure out how far in feet the bullet was off the target. Don't over think it. Knowing 10" is about 1 moa at 1000 yards is nice but when you get someone completely new to spotting and they call your shots in feet and not moa.....

I cant stress it enough the biggest thing is matching your reticle to your turrets.....the debate over MOA and MILs, Ford and Chevys, Blondes and Redheads will continue, but if you can measure your shots without coming off the rifle that's really all that matters.

Now the next time that happens (forget measuring then dialing) and try this regardless of where the bullet hit.
Hold the same aiming point you held for the miss.
Then hold the gun steady on target and dial the scope to the hit/miss.
Try it on paper at a couple hundred yards first if you like. Its sometimes referred to as 1 shot zero.
Also when using a multi dot reticle or any reticle, where ever the bullet hits just hold that hit location on target and shoot. No dialing.
Most experienced long range hunters hold over on follow up shots without addittional dialing.
Mistakes happen more often when the excitment level is raised. I try to watch if the
shooter dials the scope after a shot.
Youd be surprised how many times i see them turning the wrong way. KEEP IT SIMPLE. Do as little as possible by way of dialing to make the shot.
I can understand the desire to impress ourselves and friends by dialing for hits at long distances.
But it isnt as easy when your shooting at live big game targets.

[Palmetto-Pride]

Now the next time that happens (forget measuring then dialing) and try this regardless of where the bullet hit.
Hold the same aiming point you held for the miss.
Then hold the gun steady on target and dial the scope to the hit/miss.

That works great if you can keep the gun perfectly still and at the exact same spot you held when you took the previous shot if you move the gun once you start turning the turrets then you are back to square one.

Like others have said the most important thing is having matching turrets/reticle I prefer mils because that's what I am now used to, but I will add that for ranging with the reticle I think using mils is easier (although most civilian shooters probably don't have a need to range long range targets with a scope reticle) Mil turrets can be adjusted faster for long range dial ups precisely because they are not as precise:p as MOA turrets. For me I like ringing steel at long ranges I am not really a bench rest shooter going for the absolute tiniest one hole five shot group.

[J.Baker]

My point is... if you can have matching MOA/MOA vs matching Mil/Mil... why would one prefer the Mil/Mil when the MOA/MOA is a finer adjustment? Assuming the exact same reticle pattern so there isn't any "I prefer this reticle over that reticle".

MOA and MIL each have their place and it all depends on what type of shooting you do.

MOA as you've noticed offers finer adjustment (even more so with the 1/8 MOA click option if available). As such MOA is preferred by precision shooters where targets are generally smaller making finer adjustments a necessity.

MIL clicks cover a greater distance and are best suited for shooting larger targets where pinpoint shot placement isn't as critical, or where you will be shooting at varied distances and need to quickly dial your scope up/down quite frequently.

It all boils down to shot placement and how critical being able to as closely match up your point of impact up to your point of aim is. At shorter distances it's not as noticeable and won't make much of a different, but when you get out to 600+ yards it starts to become apparent and could mean the difference between an bullseye shot and an 8 ring shot, or a hit or miss on a small critter like a groundhog or prairie dog.

You also have to take into consideration which makes more sense to you. Most of is think in inches and feet here in the U.S. so the MOA concept is much easier to grasp and understand. MIL is fairly easy to understand once you acclimate yourself to it so long as both your reticle and adjustments are MIL.

[Palmetto-Pride]

A great lesson on MILS and MOA......................http://snipershide.scout.com/story/1528352-mils-vs-moa-which-one-is-right-for-you

[ohaley]

If you use mils very long it will get just as easy.
It really makes no difference......pick one......(or the other) and train with it.
In the end they are both simple once you get use to it.

I agree with above. I am brand new to long range / scoped rifles and MOA makes more sense to me.

[BarrelNuts]

Ended up going with MOA... just because its what I'm more used to. Not that learning mils would be a difficult endeavor; however since my other scopes are in MOA doesn't make sense to try to learn something new just for the sake of learning something new.

In any case... 2 days until its on my doorstep; getting worse than a kid waiting for Christmas!

[yobuck]

Ill be in Driftwood PA god willing by about mid June. Ive never even looked into a mil scope let alone use one.
Id love to be educated by someone who can show me how good they are for ranging etc. as compared to moa
and a rangefinder. Even with the leaves we can find ample targets from the front yard.

[BarrelNuts]

Ill be in Driftwood PA god willing by about mid June. Ive never even looked into a mil scope let alone use one.
Id love to be educated by someone who can show me how good they are for ranging etc. as compared to moa
and a rangefinder. Even with the leaves we can find ample targets from the front yard.

If you use Mil or MOA you can range estimate as long as you have a marked reticle and know what the distance between the markings subtends to.... first focal plane reticles help because the distance never changes with magnification but even with a SFP scope you can use reticle markings to estimate range (most require you to be on max power).

[yobuck]

If you use Mil or MOA you can range estimate as long as you have a marked reticle and know what the distance between the markings subtends to.... first focal plane reticles help because the distance never changes with magnification but even with a SFP scope you can use reticle markings to estimate range (most require you to be on max power).

Well im not argueing that isnt true. Mind you 60 years ago people were telling me we could range acuratly with a 1 minit dot also. You know 1 inch at 100, 10" at 1000 etc.
Well ive had some one minit dots and i cant range very well with them. And ive not met anybody else who can at any real distance with any degree of accuracy.
I want to hear somebody say that rock over there is 850 yds plus or minus a few yards. And then confirm that with a rangfinder or by hitting the rock with the first shot or come within inches. And ill be picking the rocks.
BUT, i could be wrong about mil reticles ill admit. SO, since my trip to PA will take me thru parts of Georgia, both the Carolinas,
and both Virginia and W. Virginia, let me say ill come to you, whoever will show me how to do this. I have a camper and i dont really care
how long it takes me to get to PA. I will go out of my way, even to Tenn. or Kentucky if necessary to learn about this.