best bang for the buck

[swadiver]

so, i have a Savage 10 FCP-SR .308 with Accustock. it's a good shooter. let's say i wanted to take it to the next level. should i go with an aftermarket stock or maybe a barrel change? Kreiger, Shilen? Choate, McMillian?

any advice to a new bolt action shooter is appreciated

[tammons]

What purpose ?

[swadiver]

most accurate bench rest shooting, maybe some beginning competition

[mattri]

Next level from what? What is it shooting now? Are you handloading, what load/bullet? Groups? Range?

[tammons]

Most accurate bench - A more inherently accurate cartridge helps like a 6mmBR unless you are shooting FTR then 308 or 223, competition dies and a good scale that will weigh to 1 piece of powder, best barrel you can afford, good pillar bedded target stock with all the goodies, all the other typical savage accuracy mods, good competition bipod if shooting prone, better scope, maybe a 20moa base depending on the range and scope, and leave some budget for a good spotting scope pad etc.

It gets expensive fast. Guess I would start off with the barrel and stock.

I am setting up an underdog 223 for FTR.

Its either going to be an Axis with a 7 twist barrel in a cheap BSA heavily worked stock, and if I cant get what I want out of that, the barrel will go on another 10 SS action I have and into a Choate target stock. I have a Harris bipod with tilt lock and the add on paddle feet which should barely be competitive. The best bipods for FTR are expensive. Not sure on the scope this time but I am leaning towards one of the Vortex 6-24 viper of some sort. A SS 20x with the etched reticle is cheaper and might get you by for a while.

Still I dont know which spotting scope I want but it needs to be a good one.

Best base I have owned was a farrel steel.
Best rings TPS steel.
Best scope I have used was a Nightforce 12-42x

Best all around rig I have set up was a plain jane 10 savage action with no work, midwayusa Shilen 6mmBR barrel, machined recoil lug, SSS trigger, sitting in a Choate stock with alum V blocks, Farrel base, TPS rings, Nightforce scope and that rig would shoot 3/4" at 300 yards with 105 gr Lapua bullets. That is competitive grouping IE 1/4 moa.

Maybe above will give you some ideas.

[aqua9945]

My 2 F Open savages are : Savage 12 short target actions from the LRP models. Original stocks and barrels were sold online to recoup. They are both fitted with choate tactical stocks that have had the barrel channel opened up a little. A chrome steel forend plate is bolted to the accessory rail and they sit in a front rest. Lead weight has been added to the buttstock as required. Both have nightforce 20moa rails and nightforce BR 12-42 scopes.

#1. 260 AI. Broughton 5C 1000yd f class barrel. Has won a couple of comps, may be rechambered as a 6x47 lapua in the future Original tgt accutrigger.

#2. 7mm SAUM. Has PT&G magnum SA bolthead fitted and Krieger 17HV barrel. Overall weight (with lead) 9.6kg. Won a second place on its first outing. Not much recoil. Basix #2 aftermarket trigger.

Andrew

[swadiver]

Next level from what? What is it shooting now? Are you handloading, what load/bullet? Groups? Range?


Good questions.

for now, not hand loading. using good factory ammo ( Federal GMM 168 gr SMK and Aussie ADI 168 gr SMK), 5 shot groups have been about a .5 inch at best with the average in the .80 inch range at 100 yards. i have no idea whether this is considered normal for this weapon and load. sooner or later, i will hand load but just not for now. maybe a better barrel or stock will not be an advantage until i hand load? I have only shot up to 200 yards so far with this rifle, but it shot in the 1.3 to 1.8 inch range there.

one reason i ask this is, my buddy with his Remington 700 XCR Long Range is getting a bit better consistent accuracy from his rifle over the Savage. he is using the same loads. i think we are both about the same as shooters. (both new)

[mattri]

If you aren't hand loading that would definitely be a place to start. Have you tried other ammo in the rifle? A rifle likes what it likes, it may not shoot even high quality ammo well, but do better with something else.

If it were me I'd look at working with the rifle as is while developing some more shooting skills and start loading. Little things like floating the barrel/tang, tuning the tension of the action screws, bedding the stock etc can make big improvements in accuracy. Finding out which ammo/load a rifle likes takes time, its trial and error with acute attention to detail. As you progress you can determine what direction you want to go with the modifications.

What are you running for optics?

[10gaugemag]

I would definitely handload before changing anything. My buddy took a factory Savage10 Predator Hunter 6.5 Creedmoor from a 1/2" gun to shooting a little ragged hole at 100 yards just by handloading for it, same brass and same Hornady bullet too just tailored the powder charge and COAL to the gun. Wouldn't hurt to find a well seasoned handloader to help with the process as well.

[tammons]

If your rifle is shooting that well now with factory ammo, I would not change the barrel yet - but a 20" bbl is a handicap for long range competition.

Those are good groups for factory ammo, but with hand loads and the typical accuracy mods which you should do anyway you can probably cut the size of your groups in half. To be competitive the competition you at least have to be shooting 1/2 moa.

Go here and look for known accuracy loads...
and work with someone at first to show you how to handload properly.

http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

Check to make sure the tang and entire barrel is free floated.
One piece scope base if you dont already have one, check and bed the scope base if necessary.
Good rings and hone them if not perfectly aligned. Takes a hone kit to do that but its easy.
Do the entire normal savage accuracy routine - Properly bed your stock (or bed a different stock. If choate with the V block you dont need to bed), machined recoil lug, SSS trigger or other, make sure the tang and entire barrel is free floated. I know little about working the accustock, but what I have read is its better out of the box than a non bedded Tupperware or other factory stock but not better than a properly pillar bedded stock. The idea is to make sure the action has full and even support, everything is free floated, the recoil lug is in 100% contact and the action screws take no recoil.

What scope do you have now ?

[swadiver]

[QUOTE=tammons;315556]If your rifle is shooting that well now with factory ammo, I would not change the barrel yet - but a 20" bbl is a handicap for long range competition.

Those are good groups for factory ammo, but with hand loads and the typical accuracy mods which you should do anyway you can probably cut the size of your groups in half. To be competitive the competition you at least have to be shooting 1/2 moa.

Go here and look for known accuracy loads...
and work with someone at first to show you how to handload properly.

http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

Check to make sure the tang and entire barrel is free floated.
One piece scope base if you dont already have one, check and bed the scope base if necessary.
Good rings and hone them if not perfectly aligned. Takes a hone kit to do that but its easy.
Do the entire normal savage accuracy routine - Properly bed your stock (or bed a different stock. If choate with the V block you dont need to bed), machined recoil lug, SSS trigger or other, make sure the tang and entire barrel is free floated. I know little about working the accustock, but what I have read is its better out of the box than a non bedded Tupperware or other factory stock but not better than a properly pillar bedded stock. The idea is to make sure the action has full and even support, everything is free floated, the recoil lug is in 100% contact and the action screws take no recoil.


Thanks for the responses. as to the questions and comments:

1) it is a 24 inch barrel.

2) Glass is the Millet LRS 25x. and here is the rub there. it's on it's way back to Millet (Bushnell) for service. it's a brand new scope and it jumps out of focus upon recoil on 5 out of 20 shots. also seems not to be holding a good zero. I have it on a EGW HD 20 moa one piece aluminum rail. rings are aluminum from Millet. me thinks i may want to go with some steel rings. i am hoping that the inconsistent groups i am getting now is caused by an apparently defective scope. we will see.

3) I know the barrel is free floated as far back as i can check. i can run a business card down the entire length of the stock from the front with no contact back to where the barrel enters into the action. I even sanded back the stock a bit where it was close to touching the barrel.

4) I have removed the stock a couple of times and have reinstalled it while holding the rifle vertical with the stock on the floor and gently tapped the stock on the floor to ensure the recoil lug is in contact. i tightened the action screws starting with the front screw and went back and forth between front and rear screws until very snug. unfortunately, at this point i do not have an inch pound torque wrench. guess i should get one. The Accustock is aluminum bedded. is this bedding not adequate ?

5) trigger is the Varmint Accutrigger which i did a trigger job on. pull is definitely less than 16 ozs, probably around 12 ozs.

6) what is the "tang" ?

I guess i am jealous of my shooting partner now. we were out today and he was getting .35 to .75 inch groups (100 yards) with his Remington 700 XCR Long Range (.308) which is in stock form except for a Timney trigger, using Federal GMM 168gr SMK and Aussie 168gr SMK loads. he does it more consistently than me and i think we are about the same as shooters.

I will be trying some different ammo until i hand load, but that may be awhile yet.

thanks, all.

[tammons]

1) That should work. Heavy long high BC bullets and RL17

2) I dont know anything about millet scopes. Sounds decent but if it is mildot the reticle lines might be too thick for long distance.

EGW base is good.
Only reason I would absolutely want steel rings are if they are on a steel base. IE everything will expand and contract at the same rate.
I like the burris 6 screw heavy rings myself but be sure to hone whatever you use. If they are not aligned you can torque the scope. IE millet rings might be chinese. That could also be why your friend shoots slightly tighter groups.

3) Sounds good

4) I dont know anything about accustocks, but it sounds decent. Use it for now and move on later maybe. You might want to ask if you should just bed the recoil lug. Sometimes they dont perfectly mate, but that 6mmBR rifle I had in the choate stock with an alum bedding block that shot 1/4 moa I did nothing to the stock.

5) Sounds good

6) The piece that hangs off the back of the action where the safety is. Should be free floated.

It may be his shooting style. If you havnet got the Parallax correct and dont use the same cheek weld/palm/etc etc then it can make a difference. Also he may have a better scoep, but you are talking a very small difference. If he was consistently shoot 1/4" groups I would say yes but you wont get there without handloading. It will save you money in the end.

Also just because your scope says 100 yards on the dial doesnt mean thats correct. You may have to play with it to find the right setting.

My tightest groups always came from shooting free or semi free recoil. That was with lower recoiling rounds like 223 and 6mmBR. Also 30BR was doable.

[swadiver]

1) That should work. Heavy long high BC bullets and RL17

2) I dont know anything about millet scopes. Sounds decent but if it is mildot the reticle lines might be too thick for long distance.

EGW base is good.
Only reason I would absolutely want steel rings are if they are on a steel base. IE everything will expand and contract at the same rate.
I like the burris 6 screw heavy rings myself but be sure to hone whatever you use. If they are not aligned you can torque the scope. IE millet rings might be chinese. That could also be why your friend shoots slightly tighter groups.

3) Sounds good

4) I dont know anything about accustocks, but it sounds decent. Use it for now and move on later maybe. You might want to ask if you should just bed the recoil lug. Sometimes they dont perfectly mate, but that 6mmBR rifle I had in the choate stock with an alum bedding block that shot 1/4 moa I did nothing to the stock.

5) Sounds good

6) The piece that hangs off the back of the action where the safety is. Should be free floated.

It may be his shooting style. If you havnet got the Parallax correct and dont use the same cheek weld/palm/etc etc then it can make a difference. Also he may have a better scoep, but you are talking a very small difference. If he was consistently shoot 1/4" groups I would say yes but you wont get there without handloading. It will save you money in the end.

Also just because your scope says 100 yards on the dial doesnt mean thats correct. You may have to play with it to find the right setting.

My tightest groups always came from shooting free or semi free recoil. That was with lower recoiling rounds like 223 and 6mmBR. Also 30BR was doable.


thanks once again sir.

i have tried to parallax the scope. i set it so that the cross hairs don't move when i move my eye an inch or so behind the scope. the mil dot reticle on the Millet is etched pretty thin and does not seem to be an issue, but going out of focus (ie, my parallax setting) on shots is. i am sure the Millet rings are chinese. my friend has a nice first focal plane Vortex with Vortex aluminum rings i believe on an EGW aluminum base.

I did try shooting semi and free recoil. for this beginner, it did not work. i know my buddy also is not shooting semi or free recoil.

my 24 inch barrel is a 1 in 10 twist, btw.

[tammons]

Vortex makes a nice scope.

Free recoil doesnt work for me unless the recoil is miniscule like 223 or maybe 308 will work if you are at Ftr Class max which is 18.18#.
I have never tried shooting 308 free recoil though.

Actually I dont shoot totally free recoil. I shoot with very minor shouldering and light thumb but I dont hold the forend. I guess you would call it semi free or something like that.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/03/free-recoil-benchrest-shooting-demonstrated/

Check out this guys 10 shot 200 yard group.