Colorado pot.

[Hallbilly]

Just watched a documentary about Colorado allowing pot to be sold publically.
I do have to be careful for NZ don't have two governing houses nor local and central laws, so I don't have a inherent understanding of the USA legal system.
Below ramblings are therefore based on my own random thoughts.
My understanding is that selling pot is against Federal law, but Colorado local law allows it and for the time being the Federal authorities are very closely watching events.
Ultimately, if the Federal authorities don't like what's going on they can step in and shut local legal pot sales down.
It is uncertain which way the Federal authorities will go, so banks won't handle the proceeds from pot sales.
Sales are strong and proceeds can't be banked, so all sales are cash, business owners must handle and sit on large amounts of cash.
Here's my theory.
Pot + cash = Organize crime + guns. Are the local authorizes intentionally trying to put the wind up Colorado citizens and promote an increase is civilian gun sales ?

[tufrthnails]

Now that is a can of worms you are opening. And depending on the level of education in the legal system you will get a lot of responses that also very depending on if someone is for or against Pot being legal. So I am going not take the bait here and just say that there is a lot of things you prob don't understand simply because you don't live here. What the Feds can and cannot do in the eyes of the masses differs greatly from what "legally" they can do. The really short answer to your question is no they are not trying to increase gun sales. As a general rule Colorado is a very liberal state. Now it can appear they want more gun sales because of the tactics they use and the reaction of the firearms market.

[yobuck]

I think many people in other countries have trouble understanding states rights having priority over federal government laws in many instances.
This just happens to be one of them. Another example would be the legality of brothels, and open carry laws in some states as opposed to essentually
no carry in others. So if you dont like the law in your state on handgun carry you can move to a state where you do like it. Or if you dont like it at all
you can always move someplace where you can be among friends.

[Edzzed]

It's also available for sales in Washington state and here in Vancouver BC. Canada. Although it is illegal here. In Vancouver they have somewhere around 80 medicinal stores that the feds want shut down but they don't control the police in Vancouver as they have a city police force and not the RCMP. Their hands are really tied there. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canada-s-health-minister-says-dispensaries-normalize-marijuana-use-1.3048543 as for the USA, the people in individual states can bring forth petitions to put something on ballots. Somehow they got enough people to vote for approving it so the state legislature had to deal with it the best they could. The feds could sue to shut them down as federal laws trump state laws but they'd be going against an angry populace that approved the measure. That would hurt them for votes and they know it. I think the feds used the words Tread carefully.

[Jamie]

Think of it in more terms of it being 50 different states that have their own laws but in order to deal with each other they look for a common set of laws (federal). Unless items cross a state line and is introduced into another state's market then federal law usually has very little jurisdiction.

Take automatic knives for instance. In this state they are absolutely legal to own and use. Unfortunately there is no manufacturer here so any auto knife brought into this state has now entered inter-state commerce and is subject to federal law. Federal law will state only Active duty, Police and EMT (....ie) are allowed to purchase them and carry them but only in performance of daily duties. So while legal here, the manner in which they get here will determine if you are legal to own it. I could drive to Oregon and purchase a auto knife there and bring it back and be legal.

[snowgetter1]

Hallbilly, the US government was designed to provide most of the power to the states not the federal government. State power has been extremely eroded over the years, however, it still exists. States are now tied to the federal government by money. So the state can retain/ pass laws they desire but it may come at a loss of federal dollars provided to the state. This federal money effectively controls the states forcing them to follow the desires of the federal government.

[psharon97]

I'm looking at this issue from another perspective. While it may be legal for consumption in some states, do businesses still drug test for pot? For example, where I work, if I fail a drug test and test positive for pot, I'll be fired. Can businesses still fire someone for testing positive for pot in states where it is legal?

[yobuck]

It would require alot of reasearch to find anything a buisness can or cant do in todays (correct) society.

[barrel-nut]

I'm looking at this issue from another perspective. While it may be legal for consumption in some states, do businesses still drug test for pot? For example, where I work, if I fail a drug test and test positive for pot, I'll be fired. Can businesses still fire someone for testing positive for pot in states where it is legal?

At least in some businesses, such as those who drug test to meet federal requirements like DOT for instance, yes. As an example, alcohol is legal here but if I were to show up at work even very very mildly intoxicated, and get tested and blow a .03 or above, I would be sent home and almost certainly fired. Essentially zero tolerance. Same way with illegal drugs.

[LongRange]

pretty soon weed will not be illegal...all the big investors are dumping a lot of money into dispensaries and cultivation warehouses and i REALLY doubt they'd be investing the money they are if it wasnt going to turn a large profit. we just roofed a dispensary 1 block from my shop and did TIs on a 100,000SF warehouse that is less than a mile from my shop that will be a cultivation warehouse...right now they have 70 rooms set up to grow and will add another 70 to 100 rooms after they are up and running. also at some point they are going to build a room to extract/make the oil in this warehouse but the room has to basically be a blast proof bunker.
i wouldnt even dare to guess how much money is tied up in that place...the electronics alone have to be in the high millions!!

[Edzzed]

I'm looking at this issue from another perspective. While it may be legal for consumption in some states, do businesses still drug test for pot? For example, where I work, if I fail a drug test and test positive for pot, I'll be fired. Can businesses still fire someone for testing positive for pot in states where it is legal?
At least in some businesses, such as those who drug test to meet federal requirements like DOT for instance, yes. As an example, alcohol is legal here but if I were to show up at work even very very mildly intoxicated, and get tested and blow a .03 or above, I would be sent home and almost certainly fired. Essentially zero tolerance. Same way with illegal drugs. They test here in Canada for some jobs like railway engineers, Heavy equipment operators in the Alberta oil patch, and other jobs. If they were to test and fire someone chances are if they have a medicinal reason or doctors note the human rights tribunal would quash the firing. If you can believe it an RCMP officer, In fact he was a Corporal, got a doctors note to have pot. He was subsequently ordered to surrender his uniform. He was also off on leave for PTSD. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/veteran-rcmp-officer-stripped-of-his-uniform-for-publicly-smoking-medical-marijuana-in-his-red-serge

[BillPa]

Can businesses still fire someone for testing positive for pot in states where it is legal?

Sure, the law is one thing, company policy is another.

The company I retired from has a corporate wide zero tolerance policy and random testing. As a matter of fact a company paid drug test is the first step in the hiring process. Pass the test(s) an interview is scheduled, fail, their application is filed in the trash can.

The policy is strictly enforced in every division-site regardless where its located, Pa, NJ, NV, GA, CA, TX to name a few.

Bill

[Berger.Fan222]

Federal allows for the federal law enforcement to seize all proceeds from pot sales. I expect they'll let it run for some numbers of years and then step in and seize all the cash, including all the tax revenues in the Colorado state tax coffers.

[Hallbilly]

Thanks for filling me in.
So snowgetter1, Fealty through encouragement.
Approximate quote from (Forgotten) comedian, "I don't have to do drugs any longer, I get the same effect when standing up quickly".

[BarrelNuts]

The biggest thing (and reason a lot of states are looking at legalizing) is that for the past 10 years pot has been rapidly "decriminalized" by lesser enforcement of existing laws. Law Enforcement typically won't haul in a 20 year old kid with a small amount... they'd rather go for the dealers. The main criminal element in marijuana isn't the end-user but the system of gang and organized crime controlled distribution... lots of folks think that if you legalize it the criminal element of illegal growth, movement, etc. goes away. On top of that you have the HUGE tax revenues that Colorado is garnering by legalization... if my property/auto/other state level taxes go down because a bunch of people want to blaze up I'm all for it (granted, in many states the wanton disregard for proper management and use of tax revenue will likely wipe this out). Personally, I don't think its the government's place to tell me or anyone else what I can or can not put into my body, what God I can worship, or who I can marry... amongst other things. Just my .02

[GeoBoy]

This whole legalizing pot thing is just a states way of raising more monies thru taxation. Society will regret the day pot was legalized, they are just breeding a society of non productive/non motivated individuals that will become a burden to society and require more social programs to handle them. I am for the medical use of pot.
We were all young and smoked a little pot drank a little too much but some of us grew up and moved on to become productive responsible adults.

[Robinhood]

To the OP. There are many people in this country that believe the people are no longer in the control of the government, that the Supreme Court has established that corporations are people. This makes our out of control lobby the true rulers of this country. All of our mainstream media is controlled by essentially 6 Corporations. Propoganda is all that can be seen or heard on the air waives, cable and internet. I am inclined to agree.

[DanSavage]

This whole legalizing pot thing is just a states way of raising more monies thru taxation. Society will regret the day pot was legalized, they are just breeding a society of non productive/non motivated individuals that will become a burden to society and require more social programs to handle them. I am for the medical use of pot.
We were all young and smoked a little pot drank a little too much but some of us grew up and moved on to become productive responsible adults.

I'd have to argue against the non productive/ non motivated individual part you speak of,,sure folks aren't going to be openly active with pot due to it being illegal in most places, which forces users to stay "inside, on the couch" so to speak. In my view alcohol is way more dangerous than pot. Alcohol is available almost any where in my area,, there has been many deaths because of alcohol including overdosing. You cannot overdose with pot,, whens the last time you saw a pot user that couldn't walk a straight line or barfing their guts out with a hang over the next day.

I don't care for alcohol or pot, but in my view I don't think the government has the right to restrict a seed bearing natural plant, or alcohol as needed responsibly.

Some people just have different needs,, mine happens to be cookies,, sugar is a drug as well as caffeine,, oh no the Feds gonna ban my coffee, you never no it can make for some shaky hands on the steering wheel.

I agree with you 100% Robinhood

[DanSavage]

One other thing I would like to add is do you really thing DOT guys don't drink it up on a Friday night,,, sure they do,, alcohol will be out of their system on Monday. Pot on the other hand is stored in your fat cells for 30 days or longer, and can be found in your hair, so if a DOT guy smoked a joint on Friday night after work he would be absolutely sober "not high" the next morning,, BUT he could test positive for pot up to 30 days.

I always wonder what the completely bald, no hair cops that seem to be drinking massive amounts of water are up to LOL.

[Hallbilly]

Interesting to see comments about the feeling of individual impotence regarding government.

Our faceless bureaucrats are currently pushing for a national flag change as well as a total change to governance.

I get very twitchy when politicians put forward radical propositions, they are an inherently lazy creature and only move when they see personal advantage as an outcome. So what's in it for them ?

Our "Returned Services' Association" are leading the fight against a flag change, for obvious reasons.

As for a change to how government works. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Like all democratic nations we New Zealanders must be constantly vigilant and ready to hold "our" politicians accountable for their actions, but "They" are getting craftier.

We have one house of representative - Parliament : and one elected head of government - The Prime Minister.
Technically the Queens representative - Governor General, is more powerful than the Prime Minister and if required can sack the PM. The last time a Governor General sacked a PM was in Australia, that put the wind up the Aussies, they're still moaning about it all these years later !

Our system must sound archaic, but it works for us. You can't get much simpler than a hand full of elected representatives and one elected chief.

I appreciate that two houses are supposed to keep an eye on each other and that even a President and PM should be able to balance each other out. But, I get the impression that more often than not everyone simply veto's each other and not much gets accomplished.

For obvious reason this is a huge issue for us at present.

I'm honestly interested for comments regarding how to govern people, or is that the million dollar question ?