Is smaller better in this case?

[SThomas3791]

Ok all you reloaders and ballistics nuts out there who actually know what they are talking about, i have a question for you. For Pennsylvania whitetail deer hunting whats your experience/knowledge on this subject because I'm torn. Smaller caliber and grain bullet (243win-100gr) with more velocity and energy or larger caliber and grain (308win-125gr) with less velocity and energy? I'm comparing Hornady American Whitetail 243 to Hornady Custom Lite 308. I know the argument is larger caliber should usually always win out but is this true in this case? Here's some numbers:
HORNADY AMERICAN WHITETAIL .243WIN 100GR INTERLOCK BTSP
muzzle - 2960/1945
100yds - 2729/1653
200yds - 2590/1398
300yds - 2300/1175
HORNADY CUSTOM LITE .308WIN 125GR SST
muzzle - 2675/1986
100yds - 2384/1578
200yds - 2112/1238
300yds - 1859/959


As you can see I didn't go beyond 300 yards on the ballistics here for for two reasons. One, we will not be shooting that far (not even close), and two I am under the understanding that 2000 feet per second is sorta the threshold for consistent bullet expansion. Anything below 2000fps could effect bullet performance. Any input and advice here would be much appreciated. My nephews are currently using the Hornady AW in the 243's I let them use but I want to start streamlining my calibers I have on hand and was thinking the reduced recoil 308 Hornady loads may be good for them? I currently use the full load Hornady AW for myself but this is a bit much for them since they are intimidated by it. The reduced recoil ammo brings the felt recoil of the 308 down to about the full 243 load. Thanks for any info!

[hombre243]

Heavy brush or open timber? OR, long range open land? Consider where you will hunt as well as the size of the deer. I don't know how big your deer get out there but I would always opt for the one I shoot best, but I won't limit myself to a long range light rifle for open country when a long range round nosed or flat nosed rifle like a .308 will do everything the .243 will do in all terrain. Even a .308 will be deflected off a branch, but it will also dump a deer a long way down range.

Also consider bullet performance on the deer. (I would go with the .308 with some type of jacketed bullet with an exposed lead tip. 130-150 grains unless you know you will be hunting in some dense brush. Then I may go even heavier on bullet weight.)

Have you looked at lead loads for a 3030? That caliber and bullet killed a lot of deer over the years. Look for a medium velocity load for the .308 if you are recoil conscious that is accurate and has a picture of a deer on the box. But don't be surprised if you opt for a heavy load and don't even feel recoil when you nail that buck.

I load Sierra 150 gr. blems in round as well as flat nosed .308 sjfp/sjrp and they're good to the 150 yards I have tested them at. But I live in Iowa and we cannot use centerfire rifles for deer.

Now, go to the bullet manufacturers website and see what their specs say. I imagine everyone and his brother will have an opinion on what is best. And while this may not be the acid test...get about a foot of wet phone books and go pop some holes in them at 100, 150, and 200 yards and see what the bullet does. I also imagine if you buy a factory load you will be ok. The box of many manufacturers ammo has pictures of the game the ammo is suitable for.

A 150 gr .308 would suit me fine. I use 125s on coyotes and groundhogs. Good luck.

[jonbearman]

The .243 win will do the job with decent bullets easily within your range. If you could get factory loads with nosler accubonds or barnes tsx bullets , these work really well along with nosler ballistic tips as well. The .308 would do it as long as the loads you are referring to , hornady custom lite. If you call hornady or some of the other manufacturers they will glady help you select the correct ammo. A tidbit of imfo is the 30-30 Winchester has killed more deer than any other cartridge to date with the 30-06 coming in second. The .243 should be practiced with a lot to make sure they can hit the boiler room. If they can shoot the .243 will rule.

[hombre243]

The .243 win will do the job with decent bullets easily within your range. If you could get factory loads with nosler accubonds or barnes tsx bullets , these work really well along with nosler ballistic tips as well. The .308 would do it as long as the loads you are referring to , hornady custom lite. If you call hornady or some of the other manufacturers they will glady help you select the correct ammo. A tidbit of imfo is the 30-30 Winchester has killed more deer than any other cartridge to date with the 30-06 coming in second. The .243 should be practiced with a lot to make sure they can hit the boiler room. If they can shoot the .243 will rule.

Where is the "like" button?:thumb:

[EFBell]

I like small and fast. 25-06 is my choice. But in the end they all work if you hit them.

[yobuck]

I like small and fast. 25-06 is my choice. But in the end they all work if you hit them.

Well in all honesty there isnt any choice but light with a 25/06 and i own one also. Yes its an excellant open country deer cartridge, but a 308 would be better in PA. with the right bullets.
BUT, 125 grain is not the right bullet for PA. deer hunting. I wouldnt be using less than a 150gr in the 308 and regardless of weight it would always be a pointed bullet.
Their all very good cartridges, but each has its place. In choosing between a 243 and a 308 its a no contest for the 308.

[Burr]

It's kind of confusing what you are trying to do here? You've got specs for a pretty common deer bullet weight in the 243 cartridge, and that 243 is being compared to a reduced velocity factory load for the 308? The reduced velocity 308 is basically duplicating, or very close to duplicating the ft lbs energy as the faster moving, lighter 243.

You own both these guns and you are trying to decide which one to have your kid use during hunting season? Or are you trying to find a load for the 308 that will have the same energy as the 243?

Hmmm, OK, don't know anything about hunting in PA. Been there, seen it, drove through it lots, never hunted PA. I know if I had 40 acres of flat ground in PA I'd be rich.

If you want to manage recoil I would look at other methods first, before reduced charge loads.

You have these two guns, and you're just trying to decide which one to use, right?

The 125 gr 308 is most likely not made for deer - it's probably a intended for yotes, smaller animals. Manage recoil at the range with quality recoil pads, teach proper shooting technique, and keep a full charge load in the .308 until it's the last resort to manage recoil. Up the bullet weight to 150 grain so you have a bullet constructed for deer sized game.

Often 243 guns have no recoil pad. My 6 mm with no pad is more painful to shoot than my 7 mm magnum with a custom stock and recoil pad and full velocity load. Plus most deer I've shot with my 6 mm run away like they have not even been hit, only to be found dead from a shot that hit exactly where intended, and little blood tral. The 308 with a heavier bullet will put the deer down faster, and leave a better blood trail to track. Some of that PA ground would be hard walking to find a deer that runs farther, and leaves very little blood trail to track. The 308 will make them easier to find, imo.

But both will work with well place shots, and neither will work without well placed shots.

[LHitchcox]

It is all about the bullet. A .243 loaded with a good deer bullet will be more than enough. The .243 got a bad reputation soon after it was marketed. The cup and core bullets of the day were not always able to get the job done, especially with a poor shot. It is easier to blame the rifle/bullet than to say I screwed up. I have had excellent performance with 100 Hornady soft point bullets and 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. Some guys I know swear by the Barnes bullets in .243. I have never used them because I never felt I needed them.

[SThomas3791]

ok since this has sorta started going all over the place i will reword my question but as im rewording it i think i found my answer. i was wondering if the extra energy of the 243 would be more effective than larger caliber of the 308. i crunched a couple numbers and found the inside 100 yards (where most of their shots will be taken) comparison is somewhat negligible. since those two numbers really almost cancel each other out the larger caliber of the two rounds makes sense. the custom lite 308 is factory loaded with their sst bullet. i know from past experience the sst bullet is very capable of taking deer sized game. when i mentioned i was looking to streamline my calibers i meant i was looking to get rid of my 243 rifles all together. ive always been a 308 guy but only got the 243's for my nephews to use. since getting them i found the reduced recoil ammo by hornady and thought to myself i can get back to just the 308's. thanks for all your input :)

[Luke45]

In choosing between a 243 and a 308 its a no contest for the 308.

they will both work, but he said shots will always be under 300 yards, 90-105 gr bullet out of a 243 is deadly on deer, plus a higher BC 243 bullet and higher velocity would be pretty much point blank hold out to 300 if sighted 2" high at 100.

[GaCop]

For many, many years I used a Ruger 77 in 243 and hand loaded 87 grain Hornady BTHP's. I shot all my deer in the neck and every one was "bang - flop" with no meat wasted. I don't recommend trying that with larger mulies out west though.