111LRH in .25-06 not happy!

[justinp61]

I understand the OPs frustration, but I don't understand what he expected Savage to do. If 1.5" is their advertised gauge for accuracy and a returned rifle shoots within that gauge it has met it's benchmark. It would be a different story if they advertised 1/2" @ 100 yards. To me it's like buying a truck that is rated to get 15-17 mpg and it gets 16, then your not satisfied. But what do you expect the dealer to do? I agree that the folks that are answering the phone are just answering questions and replying off a form and don't have any real authority to do anything.

Please don't take my comments as critical, that's not the way I intend them.

[Robinhood]

What scope do you have on it. What mounting hardware?

[LongRange]

[QUOTE=Burr;310445]Sounds like the discussion started heading in the wrong direction, and everyone just continued to push it in the wrong direction. Truth be told, 25.06 brass is not hard to come by if a little time, effort, or possibly work is exerted, if you have the time, and the patience. Long and short of it, time and patience will solve this thing, if it can be solved. Lack of it guarantees it won't be solved. I've always considered the joy of hand loading is solving the situation you have at hand - a gun that only shoots so-so at best. That being said, I would not expect every gun that rolls off the line from any of the mass produced rifle makers to be perfect, or they would all cost a significant sum more. There are places that sell $4000 guns, and they all shoot. $800 guns, mmmmm, not so much, not all of them anyway.


At the same time, I'm a little surprised at the love being expressed for the 25.06. It's a pretty significantly over-bore capacity cartridge. But if you have been reloading for that long, you should be aware of that as well. Point being, if you already reload, you should be aware that purchasing a 25.06 "may" be quite a challenge to get it to shoot well. It's not an ideal bore to capacity cartridge. That being said, if/when you get it to shoot, it's a screamer, and also is something you can take extra satisfaction in handloading. It's not like you're reloading a .308 - ANYBODY can reload a .308 and get it to shoot. 25.06 will challenge you.

Step up to the challenge, rise to the challenge, figure it out. Get in the right frame of mind, have some patience, put on your thinking cap, and find out what it takes. Document your results with everything you try.

Sounds like you are already convinced it's the gun. Barrels are really not that expensive, and easy enough to do. put on a different barrel, if that solves it - you've then got something else to speak with Savage about.

Face it, what is nice about Savage is it is a component gun. If you want to make a shooter, you really should be able to figure out what is preventing it from shooting. I'm not saying it's free, but putting gas in my pickup isn't free either - but I do it.... It's a hobby, sometimes we land on the solution quickly, sometimes the path is a little longer to get there.


But that's just me. Who knows, maybe you've inspired me to buy a 25.06 - what I like is the challenge to find a solution, maybe I'm making it too easy on myself and I need to start with a cartridge that really is challenging.

If it was always easy, there wouldn't be forums to talk about it. Why would we spend time talking about simple stuff?[QUOTE]

great post...and if you want a challenge buy a 300WM and get it to shoot bug holes at 500yds in the single digits LOL!!

[LongRange]

I suspect the same is going on here. Either they shot it more than three times or it fouls real easy. Soaked it with gunslick pro foaming bore cleaner and getting a lot of blue foam. Blue means copper according to the label. Anyway giving it another soaking and will keep going until it is clean. Will try shooting it again after I am sure its clean and see how it does.

first ditch the bore foam...buy a small can of motana extreme 50BMG copper killer,a can of MPT...see the pic...and some JB bore paste...

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-27.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-27.jpg.html)

use the MPT first to remove all carbon/soot...run 3 soaked patches through the barrel then let sit for about 3 to 5mins...then run 2 soaked patches through the barrel if its still pulling carbon(black patch)soak another patch and short stroke the throat(run the patch in about 5" then pull it back out to the chamber then back in about 5" 5Xs) wait 3mins then run 2 soaked patches through the barrel and if the second patch is pulling black repeat...if you do this 2Xs and still pulling black patches you have a carbon issue and need to use a bronze brush...soak it with the MPT and run it slowly through the barrel pull the brush at the muzzle then send it back through about 5 to 10 times then let it set for 3mins and run 2 soaked patches...after no black patches run 2 dry patches then 2 soaked with 91% isopropyl alcohol followed by 2 dry patches then use the 50BMG to remove the copper...use the exact same procedure as above....once ALL the carbon and copper are out use the JP bore paste...put the muzzle against a wall or some thing so the brush does not exist the barrel...wrap a patch around a nylon brush that is one size under your bore,coat it with the JB bore paste and push it through the bore until it hits the wall then pull it back out to the chamber...that will equal 1 stroke...do 15 strokes then change the patch coat with the JB and do 15 more strokes then run 2 patches of the 50BMG then 2 with 91% isopropyl alcohol then 2 dry then one with 2 drops of oil...shoot it and let us know how it shoots.

[rebelwolf10]

Sounds like the discussion started heading in the wrong direction, and everyone just continued to push it in the wrong direction. Truth be told, 25.06 brass is not hard to come by if a little time, effort, or possibly work is exerted, if you have the time, and the patience. Long and short of it, time and patience will solve this thing, if it can be solved. Lack of it guarantees it won't be solved. I've always considered the joy of hand loading is solving the situation you have at hand - a gun that only shoots so-so at best. That being said, I would not expect every gun that rolls off the line from any of the mass produced rifle makers to be perfect, or they would all cost a significant sum more. There are places that sell $4000 guns, and they all shoot. $800 guns, mmmmm, not so much, not all of them anyway.


At the same time, I'm a little surprised at the love being expressed for the 25.06. It's a pretty significantly over-bore capacity cartridge. But if you have been reloading for that long, you should be aware of that as well. Point being, if you already reload, you should be aware that purchasing a 25.06 "may" be quite a challenge to get it to shoot well. It's not an ideal bore to capacity cartridge. That being said, if/when you get it to shoot, it's a screamer, and also is something you can take extra satisfaction in handloading. It's not like you're reloading a .308 - ANYBODY can reload a .308 and get it to shoot. 25.06 will challenge you.

Step up to the challenge, rise to the challenge, figure it out. Get in the right frame of mind, have some patience, put on your thinking cap, and find out what it takes. Document your results with everything you try.

Sounds like you are already convinced it's the gun. Barrels are really not that expensive, and easy enough to do. put on a different barrel, if that solves it - you've then got something else to speak with Savage about.

Face it, what is nice about Savage is it is a component gun. If you want to make a shooter, you really should be able to figure out what is preventing it from shooting. I'm not saying it's free, but putting gas in my pickup isn't free either - but I do it.... It's a hobby, sometimes we land on the solution quickly, sometimes the path is a little longer to get there.


But that's just me. Who knows, maybe you've inspired me to buy a 25.06 - what I like is the challenge to find a solution, maybe I'm making it too easy on myself and I need to start with a cartridge that really is challenging.

If it was always easy, there wouldn't be forums to talk about it. Why would we spend time talking about simple stuff?

If it shot with any consistancy with factory ammo I would not be as unhappy. And after looking around at their catalog and web site there is no mention of any accuracy guarantee. The only time I heard that was from the rep. There is a lot of talk about accuracy on every page but ne mention of where they set that bar. I have come to terms with the fact that I got one of the bad ones. I will either make it shoot or get out from under it. I am sure with some work on the barrel either lapping or just shoiting and cleaning will smooth It out. And yes I am fairly certain I can develop a load that will work. I have also just received an action wrench and barrel wrench in preparation for the day when not if I replace the barrel with a higher quality one.

[rebelwolf10]

first ditch the bore foam...buy a small can of motana extreme 50BMG copper killer,a can of MPT...see the pic...and some JB bore paste...

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-27.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-27.jpg.html)

use the MPT first to remove all carbon/soot...run 3 soaked patches through the barrel then let sit for about 3 to 5mins...then run 2 soaked patches through the barrel if its still pulling carbon(black patch)soak another patch and short stroke the throat(run the patch in about 5" then pull it back out to the chamber then back in about 5" 5Xs) wait 3mins then run 2 soaked patches through the barrel and if the second patch is pulling black repeat...if you do this 2Xs and still pulling black patches you have a carbon issue and need to use a bronze brush...soak it with the MPT and run it slowly through the barrel pull the brush at the muzzle then send it back through about 5 to 10 times then let it set for 3mins and run 2 soaked patches...after no black patches run 2 dry patches then 2 soaked with 91% isopropyl alcohol followed by 2 dry patches then use the 50BMG to remove the copper...use the exact same procedure as above....once ALL the carbon and copper are out use the JP bore paste...put the muzzle against a wall or some thing so the brush does not exist the barrel...wrap a patch around a nylon brush that is one size under your bore,coat it with the JB bore paste and push it through the bore until it hits the wall then pull it back out to the chamber...that will equal 1 stroke...do 15 strokes then change the patch coat with the JB and do 15 more strokes then run 2 patches of the 50BMG then 2 with 91% isopropyl alcohol then 2 dry then one with 2 drops of oil...shoot it and let us know how it shoots.

I did finally get all the copper and carbon out of the barrel. Was going to put the scope back on and shoot it but while working the bolt noticed it has a very rough feel. Looking at the bolt I found three dished out places in the cam surface that cocks the firing pin. Figured I would be on the phone agian so leaned it against the wall and moved on to other projects. I will get some of the bore cleaners you mentioned though. AlWays looking for a better way to clean a bore.

[rebelwolf10]

What scope do you have on it. What mounting hardware?

I have used two different scopes and mounts on it. The first was a new setup and since it was an unknown I took the scope off my model 12 and used it. Mounted the new one on the model 12 and it worked fine.

[rebelwolf10]

I understand the OPs frustration, but I don't understand what he expected Savage to do. If 1.5" is their advertised gauge for accuracy and a returned rifle shoots within that gauge it has met it's benchmark. It would be a different story if they advertised 1/2" @ 100 yards. To me it's like buying a truck that is rated to get 15-17 mpg and it gets 16, then your not satisfied. But what do you expect the dealer to do? I agree that the folks that are answering the phone are just answering questions and replying off a form and don't have any real authority to do anything.

Please don't take my comments as critical, that's not the way I intend them.

Savage as far as I can find on thier web site does not advertise the 1.5 inch benchmark. And to be honest if it did hit that with any regularity it would be less of an issue for me. I am using five shots not three like they do but with most off the shelf ammo it was two inches or higher. using thier reccommended Federal Premium with the Nosler 100 balistic tip did get me a five shot group that was about 1.5 inches. The next attempt with that bullet was over 2 inches. Same for Federal Premium with an 85 grain Nosler ballistic tip. To borrow your anaogly the truck did in fact get the milage they stated but just once. They have said basically you can only use shell gasoline and it must be the 93 octane variety oh and you have to drive just a short distance. I understand now why they have stopped offering this rifle Caliber choice.

[rebelwolf10]

For all those that recommend hand loads yes that was always my intention, however Savage like most all companies says they can void your warranty if you do. This they do spell out in thier warranty. With the new problem of a poorly machined bolt body I have put that idea on the shelf.

[Robinhood]

What scope do you have on it. What mounting hardware?



I have used two different scopes and mounts on it. The first was a new setup and since it was an unknown I took the scope off my model 12 and used it. Mounted the new one on the model 12 and it worked fine.

What scope do you have on it? By that I mean, Nikon Buckmaster, Vortex Viper, Bushnell Tactical or BSA sweet etc....

What mounting hardware? By that I mean Talley, Weaver, Leopold, Nightforce etc....

What chambering is your model 12? By that I mean 204, 223, 308 etc...

[rebelwolf10]

What scope do you have on it? By that I mean, Nikon Buckmaster, Vortex Viper, Bushnell Tactical or BSA sweet etc....

What mounting hardware? By that I mean Talley, Weaver, Leopold, Nightforce etc....

What chambering is your model 12? By that I mean 204, 223, 308 etc...

Original scope was a Hawke Endurance 30mm 4-16x50 with 30mm tube, talley fixed ring mounts. The model 12FV has a leupold vxii 4-12x40 with leupold base and rings. It is chambered in .22-250. Since the one piece mount for the short action model 12 would not fit the 111 I got a pair of leupold bases for the 111 and used the rings from the model 12. The leupold is a one inch tube versus the 30mm on the Hawke. After rezeroing the model 12 I did a box test on the hawke and it passed. Wasn't dead back on zero but a click up and left and it was good to go. it's only a 350 dollar scope so wasn't expecting perfect.