Savage Axis elevation maxed out and still shoots low

[jbone]

Hello all,

Just signed up here since I figure you guys would be the group that would be able to help me.

Anyway...

I purchased a Savage Axis II .243 about a month ago. It came with a Weaver 3-9x40mm scope. Since Savage claims they bore sight them before leaving the facility I figured I would be on paper. Not even close. It shot about 1.5 ft. low right out of the box. So then I tried making my elevation adjustment. Well after the scope elevation was maxed out, I still shot around 2-3" low at 100 yards. I have a gunsmith that was at the range that day take a quick look at it and try it out. He attempted to do all he could, but he said it was likely in the scope/rings/bases, or a possibly a combination of all of them.

So I then went out and bought a Leupold 3-9x40mm VX1 scope and Leupold rings that would attach to the Weaver style bases. I bought a bore sighting kit and dialed that in at home. Looked great and I thought I had figured it out. Went back out to the range, and still no luck. Maxed out elevation and still shot about 1.5" low.

So my thought is the last thing it can be is the bases themselves, since that is the only thing that was not replaced. I then bought the DNZ aluminum one piece mount. I figured there was no margin for human error there and I read great reviews. I installed the mount (which is great quality BTW) and headed to the range yesterday. At 100 yards it shoots right at 1" low with the scope elevation maxed out. I just don't get it.

I even went as far as to try a laser bore sighter today. And surprisingly when I look through the scope, the red dot is well above my cross hairs at about 20 yards. Indicating that I should be shooting HIGH instead of low!? I seriously don't get it. At this point, the only thing I can think of is something messed up in the threading of the barrel? What do you guys think it could be? I know it is under warranty, but I feel they would just bore sight it and say its fine (since it passes the bore sight test).

I have shot 100 grain and 80 grain. Both have the same issue.

I would really appreciate any input or thoughts you guys may have. I know this is kind of long, but I wanted to explain everything without forgetting vital info.

[J.Baker]

You've ruled out everything but the gun itself so it's time to contact Savage and let them figure it out. Could be a warped action or could be the barrel threads were cut out of line. Whatever the case it's not right and it's their product to stand behind (which they do very well BTW).

[DrThunder88]

I'm going to echo the "call Savage" advice.

Still, it's a weird one for sure. You went about debugging it the right way. The only other thing I would think to confirm is that you were using factory ammo. I know boresighting isn't the be-all, end-all for determining if a rifle's put together correctly, but that the rifle was boresighted three times in at least two different ways and still shoots that low seems like tolerances wold have to have stacked in a rather unlikely manner.

Anyway, that you've eliminated so many variables puts this in the realm of a warranty repair.

[jbone]

Thanks for the replies guys! It is much appreciated. And yes, I was using factory ammo.

I went through everything I can think of, and my next step will be to contact Savage. I have heard good things about their customer service so I am hopeful.

At this point, I think it has to do with the threading of the barrel. I really am puzzled at the bore sighting results though.

Any idea how long the turn-around is on warranty repair with Savage? I have already spent a lot of time and money on this thing and I just hope I can shoot it accurately at over 100 yards in the near distant future.

[pisgah]

If you haven't already done it, I'd be interested in knowing where it shoots at 25 yards. Sounds like from your bore-sighting it'll be seriously high. If so, zero it dead on at 25, then try again at 100.

[jbone]

If you haven't already done it, I'd be interested in knowing where it shoots at 25 yards. Sounds like from your bore-sighting it'll be seriously high. If so, zero it dead on at 25, then try again at 100.

At 25 yards it shoots about 1/2" low still. Maxed out elevation.

Bore sighting at 20 yards says it is shooting about 4" high.

Makes absolutely no sense to me.

[barrel-nut]

I agree with Jim, that you've done everything right, and to truly fix the problem would require sending the rifle back for warranty repairs. But I also understand your hesitation to do so. It could prove time consuming, and maybe even frustrating.
Let me ask you this- was the rifle grouping to your satisfaction at 100 yds? Around 1" +/- would be about normal. If so, and you do not wish to send the rifle back for whatever reason, you could probably fix your problem by ditching the DNZ mount and putting a 20 MOA picatinny rail on it. This would give you back 20+" of elevation at 100 yds. and get your scope back closer to optical center. Another option would be to install two piece weaver or picatinny style bases with a spacer under the rear base. This would also give you some elevation back. I've used these successfully-
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1548585609/burris-scope-base-shims-1240x735-package-of-10

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/665735/burris-2-piece-xtreme-tactical-scope-base-picatinny-style-savage-10-through-16-110-through-116-round-rear-axis-reversible-front
Burris Signature Zee rings with the offset plastic inserts would also work.
Although any of these would almost definitely solve your problem, it's a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. Warranty repair/replacement would be the best long-term fix.

[gumbo333]

Is it possible the base is backwards? Maybe that can't be done. Is it possible to add a shim under the rear of the base? I'll bet someone here knows how thick of a shim to add to get 10 to 20 MOA. I've had good luck with the 2 piece Burris bases but I know a lot of guys favor a 1 piece base. Hard to get some of the Nikon (short) scopes to get back far enough with the 2 piece bases. Seems like it would be difficult for Savage to miss getting the base mount areas off by that much.

[J.Baker]

Is it possible the base is backwards? Maybe that can't be done. Is it possible to add a shim under the rear of the base? I'll bet someone here knows how thick of a shim to add to get 10 to 20 MOA. I've had good luck with the 2 piece Burris bases but I know a lot of guys favor a 1 piece base. Hard to get some of the Nikon (short) scopes to get back far enough with the 2 piece bases. Seems like it would be difficult for Savage to miss getting the base mount areas off by that much.

He noted he's using the factory supplied two-piece bases in his original post. These are pretty consistent in thickness and I've never heard of any causing a vertical issue such as this Horizontal yes, but not vertical. He could try swapping them front to back, back to front to rule it out, but I wouldn't expect it to change anything based on my experiences with the factory bases.

I have a feeling that what we're dealing with here is an excessively warped action.

[jbone]

I agree with Jim, that you've done everything right, and to truly fix the problem would require sending the rifle back for warranty repairs. But I also understand your hesitation to do so. It could prove time consuming, and maybe even frustrating.
Let me ask you this- was the rifle grouping to your satisfaction at 100 yds? Around 1" +/- would be about normal. If so, and you do not wish to send the rifle back for whatever reason, you could probably fix your problem by ditching the DNZ mount and putting a 20 MOA picatinny rail on it. This would give you back 20+" of elevation at 100 yds. and get your scope back closer to optical center. Another option would be to install two piece weaver or picatinny style bases with a spacer under the rear base. This would also give you some elevation back. I've used these successfully-
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1548585609/burris-scope-base-shims-1240x735-package-of-10

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/665735/burris-2-piece-xtreme-tactical-scope-base-picatinny-style-savage-10-through-16-110-through-116-round-rear-axis-reversible-front
Burris Signature Zee rings with the offset plastic inserts would also work.
Although any of these would almost definitely solve your problem, it's a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. Warranty repair/replacement would be the best long-term fix.

Yes, I am frustrated that I have to send the rifle back in right out of the box. Not the way I intended the purchase of a new rifle to go lol.

The grouping was consistent and great. Windage needed few minor adjustment.

I have contacted Savage and they are sending UPS by tomorrow to pick up the gun. He said it would be about 3 weeks once they have the gun until I would see it again. Kind of long to wait since I have already spent a month trying to figure this out. But if it gets taken care of, then I will be happy.


Is it possible the base is backwards? Maybe that can't be done. Is it possible to add a shim under the rear of the base? I'll bet someone here knows how thick of a shim to add to get 10 to 20 MOA. I've had good luck with the 2 piece Burris bases but I know a lot of guys favor a 1 piece base. Hard to get some of the Nikon (short) scopes to get back far enough with the 2 piece bases. Seems like it would be difficult for Savage to miss getting the base mount areas off by that much.

The bases were the exact same. Measured with a caliper. The DNZ is a one piece mount and the measurements are the same on both sides.

I was really hoping the issue was in the bases.


He noted he's using the factory supplied two-piece bases in his original post. These are pretty consistent in thickness and I've never heard of any causing a vertical issue such as this Horizontal yes, but not vertical. He could try swapping them front to back, back to front to rule it out, but I wouldn't expect it to change anything based on my experiences with the factory bases.

I have a feeling that what we're dealing with here is an excessively warped action.

Yes, tried swapping them and same result. Like I mentioned above, they measure the same with a caliper.

The service guy I talked to at Savage, Rob, was very intrigued by the issue. He said it doesn't make sense at all (like we have all stated). He said they would take care of it though.

[jbone]

Just want to give everyone an update on this...

Received the gun back from Savage today. Can't say that I'm too happy. They sent it back with paperwork stating there is nothing wrong with it.

At 100 yards, they were able to achieve 1.2" groupings. I was able to do this as well, but with ELEVATION MAXED OUT, and my groupings were 1 inch low! This is the reason I sent it in. I even specified on the paper I sent in that the main problem is it shoots consistently 1" low at 100 yards with elevation maxed out on 2 different scopes. I did not want to shoot 1" low at 100 yards with elevation maxed out. I shouldn't have to. A new gun should perform better than this, and the cross hairs should sit much closer to optical center. What if I want to shoot at 200 or 300 yards?

So I just ordered a 20 MOA Picatinny rail, and a set of Leupold PRW rings for it. I really should not have to do this since I do not shoot 600+ yard shots, but since Savage didn't bother to delve deeper into the issue, I have no other choice. Really disappointing honestly. I now have about $1000 invested (including cost of gun) into this ordeal, when realistically, the gun should have worked correctly out of the box at $400.

I had a lot of faith in Savage and their warranty after reading many good experiences. Unfortunately, I can't say the same.

[Stockrex]

Op, maybe you can shoot it upside down?
sorry could not resist,
in all seriousness, I would call them again and use different language to describe the issue.

Here is what I do at home before heading to the range to check if my scope lines up properly with the bore.

I measure the vertical distance from the center of the scope to the center of the barrel with my fine fingers.
I put 2 dots on a piece of paper this distance apart vertically.
I put my laser on the muzzle (or a chamber one if I have one for that caliber) and look through my scope and get the scope to center on the top dot.
Most of I have to adjust the wind age a few clicks/turns. Elevation is few clicks/turns too.
I do this with the target around 40 ft away.
you put a magnetic beam/level laser on the top of the receiver and one in the bore and measure how the beam diverges or converges.
Document this and then call savage and tell them politely that they missed understood the problem and did not correct the faulty machining/casting with the rifle.

[jbone]

Op, maybe you can shoot it upside down?
sorry could not resist,
in all seriousness, I would call them again and use different language to describe the issue.

Here is what I do at home before heading to the range to check if my scope lines up properly with the bore.

I measure the vertical distance from the center of the scope to the center of the barrel with my fine fingers.
I put 2 dots on a piece of paper this distance apart vertically.
I put my laser on the muzzle (or a chamber one if I have one for that caliber) and look through my scope and get the scope to center on the top dot.
Most of I have to adjust the wind age a few clicks/turns. Elevation is few clicks/turns too.
I do this with the target around 40 ft away.
you put a magnetic beam/level laser on the top of the receiver and one in the bore and measure how the beam diverges or converges.
Document this and then call savage and tell them politely that they missed understood the problem and did not correct the faulty machining/casting with the rifle.

LOL. Yes, I guess that is one way to go about it. Or just not use a scope at all...

Thanks for the info and the tips! I will try that.

At this point I am done dealing with Savage CS. I purchased the gun almost 3 months ago and have not been able to hit bullseye through the cross hairs once. I really don't want to be without a gun for another month. If someone knows a direct contact at Savage, I would be more than happy to give them a call and let them know what is going on. I just don't want to talk to a wall when I call. I really love the gun (features, feel, look, etc.), but I do have a bad taste in my mouth now with Savage.

[DrThunder88]

That's a bit disappointing. Thank you for keeping us updated. I do wish Savage would have given you some sort of resolution on the problem

[pickerandsinger]

Seems to be several issues of late with the Axis II in 243 and the Weaver Kaspa…I have them on my wife's new MuddyGirl…First shot at 50 yards (supposedly boresighted from the factory) was well below the target and then the scope loosened up as I said in another post…Your issue is certainly mind boggling…I hope you get it rectified..I will be trying hers again at the range this week ….Dave

[jbone]

That's a bit disappointing. Thank you for keeping us updated. I do wish Savage would have given you some sort of resolution on the problem

Yes it is. I had a lot of faith in them after hearing such good things about their warranty. I guess I am just the Lemon lol.

It is now time to take the issue into my own hands and correct it the only way I know how (20 MOA rail). I just installed it today and will be at the range Friday. I will update everyone with the findings. If that doesn't work, this gun is getting sent back to Savage and I am telling them to keep it. I will be done with it.


Seems to be several issues of late with the Axis II in 243 and the Weaver Kaspa…I have them on my wife's new MuddyGirl…First shot at 50 yards (supposedly boresighted from the factory) was well below the target and then the scope loosened up as I said in another post…Your issue is certainly mind boggling…I hope you get it rectified..I will be trying hers again at the range this week ….Dave

Yeah, I figured for sure it was the scope, so that was the first thing I changed. Unfortunately, it was not that easy and I am about $1000 into it now.

Keep me updated with your findings. Savage factory bore sight was over a foot low out of the box, so it virtually renders the bore sight worthless.

[pickerandsinger]

Yes it is. I had a lot of faith in them after hearing such good things about their warranty. I guess I am just the Lemon lol.

It is now time to take the issue into my own hands and correct it the only way I know how (20 MOA rail). I just installed it today and will be at the range Friday. I will update everyone with the findings. If that doesn't work, this gun is getting sent back to Savage and I am telling them to keep it. I will be done with it.



Yeah, I figured for sure it was the scope, so that was the first thing I changed. Unfortunately, it was not that easy and I am about $1000 into it now.

Keep me updated with your findings. Savage factory bore sight was over a foot low out of the box, so it virtually renders the bore sight worthless. The problems that I had seem to be rectified….My bore sighting was right on so not much adjusting was in order…And the scope seemed to stay tightened…I am sorry you had problems with Savage…On my 270, I had problems with the rounds dispersing from the clip going into the chamber…I called they sent me another clip…It turned out to be a problem with the bolt but I found it myself so I didn't have to go thru customer service again….To bad you couldn't talk to the guy who shot your rifle, sometimes to many people get in the middle and confuse things….Anyhow hope you get it straightened out….Dave