P.A. M11 Brake Failure. Who's the culprit???? Savage Vs. P.A. Help!!!

[brangus1111]

So I installed this Precision Armament M11 Brake on my Model 10 FCP-SR last week. Took it to the range Saturday, didn't hit paper on the first two shots so I knew something was severely wrong. Well, this is what I found. I first contacted Brownells, they will obviously replace the brake itself. However, my main concern is with the barrel threading that took a hit as well. Ive contacted Precision Armament directly as well. Basically what it comes down to is I need to determine if this is the fault of the Barrel/threading/off axis (Savage) or the Brake/Shim kit (Precision Armament). Has anyone had this problem? What was your course of action? This is a brand new build so needless to say I am upset and expect this to be taken care of. Thanks.

http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/brandon_michael6/media/10968013_10205379973286428_1837815085_n_zps537f4ae 2.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0


http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/brandon_michael6/media/1661122_10205358200982134_7150788666494382539_n_zp s7e278145.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2

[brangus1111]

So it didnt post my phots, lets try this again.
http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b618/brandon_michael6/10968013_10205379973286428_1837815085_n_zps0a20714 4.jpg (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/brandon_michael6/media/10968013_10205379973286428_1837815085_n_zps0a20714 4.jpg.html)
http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b618/brandon_michael6/10955690_10205382369386329_6323177408074450862_n_z psbee6b862.jpg (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/brandon_michael6/media/10955690_10205382369386329_6323177408074450862_n_z psbee6b862.jpg.html)
http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/b618/brandon_michael6/1661122_10205358200982134_7150788666494382539_n_zp s7e278145.jpg (http://s1294.photobucket.com/user/brandon_michael6/media/1661122_10205358200982134_7150788666494382539_n_zp s7e278145.jpg.html)

[Robinhood]

Well, this is what I found.

So what did you find? If you don't have the tools to inspect it you will need to find someone who does. The threads are out of concentricity or off axis with the bore of the brake? Same thing on the barrel? Have you inspected the threads? What value did you torque the brake to? I'm thinking you need for certain what happened so this does not come back to you and so you know who is responsible rather than throwing accusations at the wrong party.

[brangus1111]

Right, thats what im trying to figure out. I dont have the tools to inspect this. I contacted my gunsmith here in SW MO he is going to take a look at it to determine if it is in fact off axis or not. I hope he is able to make that determination. I am unsure of the torque value, when installed I had no way of determining that. I would guess 18-22lbs. It was tight and perfectly aligned with the barrel using the accu washer shim kit recommended by Precision Armament. The brake was properly timed. I also checked alignment with a bore cleaned prior to shooting and everything seemed correct. The threads one the barrel were damaged. After removing the brake I attempted to re-install the thread protector. It would only go on about 3/4 of the way before beginning to bind. Can my gunsmith make his determination without the new brake?

[brangus1111]

Basically what im looking for here is to be pointed in the right direction as to what's the best course of action. Brownells and PA both want me to send the brake back....should I hold on to it until I determine the culprit? When and if I ever get through to Savage they will likely want me to send the rifle in. I would like to keep from doing that if at all possible without knowing for sure the problem. I wont see that rifle again for a while if i do that. As far as the brake goes, should I be dealing with Brownells or directly with PA? These are a few of the questions that I am unsure of. Or am I getting ahead of myself? Still havent determined what the problem is.

[LoneWolf]

I'd try to get your money back. I'm running an APA Gen2 Lil Bastxxx oin my 243 with 0 issues. Plus no tools/washers/shims to worry about. took 5 min to install.

[Hotolds442]

If you're wanting to get your money back, then ship it back to Brownells.
If you want another, then send it to PA.
If the threads are off axis, or there's any other problem with the thread/bore alignment, then you really need to let the manufacturer make it right. Yours is not the first with apparent thread issues at the muzzle. Savage needs to start getting these rifles back by the masses so that they can see that they've created a problem and can hopefully figure out a way to resolve it.

[J.Baker]

Given the threads on the barrel are now messed up it's going to be very hard to determine if it was the barrel threads or the brake threads that were bad, or if it was simply user error by cross-threading the threads when installing the brake. Going to be hard for your gunsmith to determine anything either for the same reason because I imagine you've returned the original brake so he won't be able to screw it on the barrel to check for run-out. (That's assuming it would even screw back on with the bad threads.)

All in all I have a feeling you may just have to accept the fact you'll be eating this one. If Brownell's is replacing the brake for you that's great, but it's a safe bet that you'll be the one paying your gunsmith to cut the old threads off your barrel and rethread it for the brake. Such is the price one pays when they jump into the DIY gunsmith game because ultimately you can't blame anyone else when things don't quite go as planned or expected.

[brangus1111]

I havent sent anything back. Brownells has agreed to replace the brake, no resistance there. They were great. Precision Armament has also offered to replace it. I held on to the brake for just this reason. I am taking it over to my gunsmith today. I will give you guys an update as soon as i know. I dont consider installing a brake to be in home "gunsmithing" its a pretty simple straight forward process. Ive done it many times with no issues. I am certainly no gunsmith but do alot of things on my own with great outcomes. I can't see a scenario to where this could be my fault. whether they see it the same way or not is yet to be determined. guess we'll find out.

[Hotolds442]

I dont consider installing a brake to be in home "gunsmithing" its a pretty simple straight forward process. Ive done it many times with no issues.

Nope!

[Robinhood]

If you really want some opinions, take several pictures and load them to photo bucket or some other image storage site. Get the barrel. the brake and the shims as they are. Put them on here and let us look at them.

You have several smiths and machinist on here that can at least get an idea of what may have happened. Regrettably JBaker is more than likely right on the money. The good thing is you have some threads left that are good. The fact that the damaged threads sound to be on the back end is odd.

[brangus1111]

I just left my gunsmith, the threaded portion of the barrel is off axis. Will be sending it back to Savage. I can upload some more pics if you guys would still like to take a look at it.

[brangus1111]

In hindsight, I've never put a brake on a factory threaded barrel. There lies my fault in assuming it was accurate. Thank you guys for your help to this point. I appreciate it.

[acridsaint]

I don't see much point in factory threaded barrels if you need to take them to a smith to usable. If they have to be fixed before using, they might as well just send you an unthreaded barrel.

[brangus1111]

I don't see much point in factory threaded barrels if you need to take them to a smith to usable. If they have to be fixed before using, they might as well just send you an unthreaded barrel. I agree 100%

[TheBest]

Interesting. I wonder this is a widespread problem.

[Hotolds442]

I had read somewhere that Gander Mountain had a batch of rifles that were threaded with metric threads, but that has nothing to do with your issue. There have been other reports of sloppily threaded rifles here also. Not a widespread issue, but bothersome nonetheless. I would hope that thread concentricity would be a part of Savage QC.....

[wingspar]

I just left my gunsmith, the threaded portion of the barrel is off axis. Will be sending it back to Savage. I can upload some more pics if you guys would still like to take a look at it.

The PA M11 is the exact brake I’m thinking about for my Hog Hunter in .308. Sounds like the gun is the culprit here. How old is your gun? I bought mine new last month and have less than 50 rounds thru it. I wonder if the manufacture date would have anything to do with it.

Why would someone need a gunsmith to install a brake?

[brangus1111]

The gun is an H serial manufactured around 2012-2013. They were only produced for a year and half. Definitely manufacturer defect. Exactly 37 rounds through it. Just crazy. Yah Gary, installing a brake does not require a gunsmith to install. But I will check it with an actual 308 rod next time around.

[wingspar]

My serial number begins with a “J”. I got it new in the beginning of January. I tried looking up the date of manufacture on the Savage site, but just got a list of parts. Is there a trick to looking that info up, or does one have to call Savage?

Installing a brake seems pretty straight forward, but I got the impression some thought it required a smith. The only negative thing I’ve heard about this brake it the time consuming accu-washer trial and error. With 18 washers (sold separately, but I think they should be included), I’ve heard of experienced people taking up to an hour to get the right washer.