Headspace Issue, I think????

[RyanG]

I purchased a factory 6.5 Creedmoor barrel that was brand new a couple of months ago. I am having some issues and could use some help. I installed the barrel on a Model 11 short action and I set the head space using both go and no go gauges from PTG. I have never had a problem with them in the past and I have several sets for different chamberings. Anyway after I got the head space and finished up the rifle I started to make a dumby round for the overall case length. My first concern was that as I pushed the bullet, (I use the Frankford Arsenal tool along with the black sharpie colored bullet in a fired case, and a Hornady overall case guage to determine the OAL) I feel the bullet touch the lands then slip about 3/16" before it stops on the lands completely. I have tried several different bullets, Berger and the Hornandy Amax and I get the same results. The length were a 123 grain Amax first touches is at 2.635" and then with little pressure the bullet will "slide" to 2.775' where it comes to a hard stop. After pushing the bullet to the 2.775 spot it leaves marks on the bullet as I am jamming it into the lands like I said about 3/16 or an inch or so. So I set the bullet at 2.620' inches and loaded up a few rounds. The accuracy was amazing on the first load. On the second load and firing I was starting to see some stress marks on the case just above the rim. According to the Hornady manual this is a classic sign of head space problems. I actually had a case start to seperate when I was in Arizona last week. I thought that the loads were just too hot so I came home and pulled them all. I do not recall seeing any pressure signs on the first firing. I am having to load .09" below the book listing and I am shooting a lower end powder charge and ruining cases.

So this afternoon I pulled the barrel and I cannot see any problems however I can still feel the slight "burr" if that is the right word when I push a bullet into the lands. So I re head spaced the barrel using the guages and then with a new piece of Hornady brass. The brass with the scotch tape on the back will allow the bolt to close with no problem. At this point all I know is that I dont know what the problem is. I hope that I explained this without totally sounding like an idiot.

Help please?

[Robinhood]

Who did you purchase the barrel from?

[FW Conch]

If the head space is set properly with the go/no go gauges and the Hornady brass with the scotch tape on the back chambers easily, then the Hornady brass is below SAMMI specks. It should not chamber.

I would load a case with the Amax at 2.775 coal, a mid level powder load, and fire form the case to the chamber. By measuring the fire formed case, you can see if you are getting excessive web bulge, etc.

In this case, a chamber cast could tell you a lot.

And as Robinhood asked, did you buy this barrel as a factory new Savage, or did you get it from an individual who may have messed with the chamber, and/or lead ?

JMHO :-) Good Luck ... Jim

[RyanG]

The barrel is/was a brand new factory savage barrel. I did measure both the go and no go gauges and they are the exact same length overall.

[FW Conch]

The length that matters is from the base to the datum line on the shoulder.

Another thing you could try is set the headspace to a case, then make sure all the cases you want to load will cycle through your chamber. The down side to this is, if your cases are on the short side of SAMMI specs, then factory loads may not fit in your chamber. But your reloads will.

But I think the best way for you to proceed, from what you have told us, and since you have the barrel removed, is to do a chamber cast with "cero safe", etc., which you can get from Midway, etc. That's the only real way to know what's going on inside what seems to be a goofy chamber. Your gauges could be made wrong(unlikely), but it sound like you have used them successfully before? And it defenatly sounds like there is a problem in the lead area?

Good Luck ... Jim

[gotcha]

Head space gauges don't lie but it is possible to use them incorrectly. The rim of the gauge must be under the extractor and preferably the ejector & spring removed. It sounds like your brass is VERY short from datum to base. If you re-chamber a fired round does the bolt close with no resistance? If so, you aren't fully fire formed yet and resizing or moving the shoulder back only adds to the problem. Get yourself a Headspace comparator insert for your Hornady tool. Use it to 1st measure your go-gauge then measure virgin brass then measure and compare to fired brass. Your goal is to match the H/S of Fired brass to the H/S of your Go-gauge..... Until that happens neck size only. I have a H/S insert & an LCD for every cartridge I reload and my brass lasts forever if I don't load overly hot. Just another angle for you're consideration :) BTW the "tight spot" in your throat will probably go away after a 100 rounds or so maybe sooner. A little JB's & Kroil will help polish away any burrs on leade or throat entrance.

[Robinhood]

Pull the barrel. Drop the go gauge in the chamber and measure from the base of the case to the breech face. Record. Do the same with the no go and the case. Record those numbers. Be precise. A depth mic is the best way but you can use either end of most calipers. I prefer the blade end for something like this. Post the numbers.

[RyanG]

Thanks guys for the assistance. I am going to pick up a Hornady Headspace comparator today, after I drop the barrel off at the smith to be looked at. I have pulled the barrel twice used JB paste on it twice and called Jim at Northland and Savage. It is headspaced correctly, I didnt think that my guages were wrong but something is. I dont have a depth mic so I stuck with the smith. Oh ya and I contacted Hornady to inquire if they had any issues with the brass. I can only get "kind" of close measurements on it using my calipers. So for now I am in a holding pattern. Man I hate being stuck.... I will keep ya posted on what the smith has to say. I am hoping to get there tomorrow.

[GaCop]

Any update on the problem?

[RyanG]

I did resolve the problem by setting the headspace using a new piece of brass and not the gauges. I measured 3 different pieces of brass from 3 different boxes of Hornady brass, they were all the same. Took it out to the range and no issues at all. Dont know if I have a bad go gauge or what.

[GaCop]

Contact PT&G to see if they will exchange your bad ones for good ones.

[mudpig]

need to check and see how your resizing die is set up too. When needed you should only be setting back the shoulder of the brass .0015-.002". If you set up your dies to contact the shell holder and cam over, more than likely you are pushing your shoulder back WAY TOO MUCH, creating an excess headspace issue. Neck size only on your brass until fired brass will not readily rechamber, then full-length resize as stated. See if that helps any

[RyanG]

Thanks Mudpig... Dies are set up correctly. Problem was excessive headspace for sure. Since I have set it to the brass I have not had a single problem. I contacted Midway USA, where I purchased them, and sent the gauges back this morning. They were awesome about the return. I contacted PTG and they referred my to Midway. Will be interesting to see the new gauges.