FCP-K kick'n butt with reloads now ...

[Snakum]

As a newbie reloader I couldn't understand why I could shoot sub MOA groups with FGMM, Georgia Arms Match, and HSM Match ammo, while my own loads were sometimes as good or better and sometimes all over the map. Last Saturday I checked my zero, then shot a 1" four-shot group at 300 yards. Next I shot four at 400 and got two right on the button and two off the paper! I was beginning to wonder about the weapon a little bit.

But I checked my brass capacities with a new scale yesterday and found I'd been reloading PMC brass same as my Win/BHA brass despite a much less reduced capacity, leading to higher pressures. I've always separated my Lake City/NATO from commercial but was told early on by someone that "PMC is the same as Winchester." so I never weighed it. It isn't. Case capacities are close enough to load it like Lake City.

So I separated my loaded Win/BHA and PMC ammo and went to 100 yards. Shot a fouler (shown) then two Winchester and one PMC at targets 1, 2, and 3. Sure enough ... two touching and one high every time. I thought I was just getting a lot of flyers and my technique had a long way to go, or the rifle needed to be looked at. Not so ... group number 4 is five rounds as fast as I could crank em out, and being the last group of the day the barrel was pretty darned hot. Now I love my FCP-K again. I love it so much I've started sleeping with it and my wife is NOT amused. :-* :-* :-*

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l16/snakum/100yds.jpg

Next challenge is trying to shoot a three-shot bug hole at 100 and getting down to 1/2 MOA past 300 yards - from 400 to 600 I've never done better than MOA on my best day. I have eight pounds of Hodgen 4895 and 500 Hornady Amax bullets coming in today and will be working up a load for the FCP-K and my scout rifle. The 168gr SMKs have been great, but I need one bullet that is always available, good to 800 yards, and can also be hunted with on whitetails. Amax have gotten very good reviews for hunting thinner-skinned big game and for accuracy and stability when subsonic, so I'm going to try them.

[bodywerks]

Workin up loads for my FCP-K myself. What was your magic recipe for that fine group on target #4(case, primer, powder, charge, and COAL)?
I have different loads using Varget, Hornady and PMC brass, and 168 and 175SMK's. Haven't shot them yet but I do have a chrony and will be looking for the right load for 200 yards minimum, up to 600, and another load for 500-1000 yards.

[Snakum]

Here's the 168gr SMK data ...

IMR4895 Com Win Brass = 43.4gr Mil Brass = 42.6gr
IMR4064 Com Win Brass = 43.7gr Mil Brass = 42.9gr

I've shot the 168gr SMKs to 600 yards consistently, but not farther. I'm told after around 800 yards they destabilize as they go subsonic and will often keyhole, but I don't shoot past 800 anyway. yet. :)

I should be able to start on the 168gr Amax/H4895 today sometime, been using a variation of the OCW method to develop. Need a hunting bullet and a target/tactical comp round in one and the Amax works well for both. Guys who use 'em say they absolutely smoke these small whitetail we have down here, and carry enough energy to do so waaaaay out there - over 900ft lbs at 600 yards - which is farther than I feel comfortable taking a deer. Definitely a good beanfield round if I can get it shooting cloverleafs.

[dcloco]

Good work.

When shooting my Savage 300 Win Mag....I do NOT shoot for groups until the rifle has 8 to 11 shots down the tube after a clean barrel. Just the way she is. :)

[Uncle Jack]

".....When shooting my Savage 300 Win Mag....I do NOT shoot for groups until the rifle has 8 to 11 shots down the tube after a clean barrel. Just the way she is."

I agree but I usually only shoot 5 foulers after a major cleaning. 168grn SMKs in the .308 and 190grn SMKs in the 300 work good for me.

Out beyond, that 190 really kicks in.

uj

[ThorBird]

165 Sierra Game King will be similar BC to the 168 SMK to use for hunting. Also try rl15 and Varget. I start with 42 grains of RL15 and the 168SMK (Sierra accuracy load). That is my test combo for Savages. Every one that I have had shoots that. Nice gun.

[Three44s]

Whenever you are snuggled up with your rifle ........

........... be sure it's unloaded! LOL!! ;D



I would just treat different headstamps different ....... don't take anyone's word for it.

I would even go so far as segregating years back LC from newer stuff until your loads prove themselves .......

......... it's what handloading is all about if you will it ...... your own ballistics laboratory!


Welcome to the learning curve!


Three 44s

[Snakum]

No Amaxes for me. :(

MidSouth really screwed the pooch on my first order with them. Pretty bad first impression. Widner's was out of the powder and bullets I needed so I gave MidSouth a shot.

Soooo ... I found a ton of IMR4895 locally today and I'll just stick with the SMKs for now. I have a load for SMK/IMR4895 that uses the same dope table as the 4064 (same POI within .5 ... same accuracy). Should have thought about the Game Kings. Anyone loaded for SMKs and SGKs in the same weight? Are the POI and accuracy for both generally pretty close?

Learning curve ... you ain't lying there. :D Every time I begin to think I'm Joe Reloader I am humbled by something stupid I was doing that I didn't know about. LOL.

[Snakum]

Just finished a workup with IMR4895 (bought five pounds of it) and 168gr SMKs.

Sierra 168gr Match King
IMR4895 Win/BHA brass, Win LR primers, COL = 2.005, OAL = 2.810
Book Max 45.4
My Max 44.2
Start Wt. 43.3
Grp POI Notes
Rd1 43.3 0.525 Way low No flyers, scope needed adj
Rd2 43.6 0.750 Low/Rt No flyers, felt good
Rd3 43.9 1.300 Center No flyers
Rd4 44.2 1.150 Rt One flyer; minus flier group was .500

Grp POI Notes
Rd1 43.3 1.750 Inconsistent Not sure what happened? Hitting vegetation.
Rd2 44.2 1.100 Slightly right One bug hole, one flyer

Grp POI Notes
Rd1 43.3 0.650 Low No flyers
Rd2 44.2 0.825 Slightly low No flyers


EDIT ... updated charge weight. My Lee scale was off .2 grains per my new Lyman 500 and a borrowed Lyman Pro 1000. Had to go back and update all my load data.

[shoofly]

Hi Guys..Thought I'd chime in. I'm shooting golf balls at 500 yds. I find that the longer out you shoot , the better bullets make a difference. I'm shooting the berger 168 vlds molly in my 308 . Also hitting clay pigeons at that distance.Loads of fun!!!!!.

[Snakum]

I tried Bergers in my Win 70 7mm Rem Mag and found they were excellent LR bullets, albeit quite expensive.

[ICUDIEN]

I'm not a 30 cal guy but I would shoot the 155.5 Full bore bergers, they are lighter and have a Higher bc. Just my $.02

[1SHOT1KILL]

Snakum,

Sounds like you have a rifle that will shoot.

First thing, IMO you really need to tighten up on your components, mainly your brass. It appears you have 3 differnet makes of brass and no telling from how many lots. For consistant accurate shooting and accuracy at long range, you really need to simplify and steamline your brass to one make and one lot. IMO, what you need to do is get at least 100 rounds of good quality brass, like Lapua, Nosler Custom, Federal Premium, or Hornady Match .308 Win. brass all from the same lot. This way you do not have to keep up with 3 different loads while reloading or at the range. Since you already have a know starting point of what your rifle likes, finding that sweet load shouldn't be that difficult.

Second thing, is the 168gr Sierra HPBTM is a great bullet for out to 800yds or so, and will kill deer. I have a buddy who shoots Federal Gold match 168gr HPTBM for everything from plinking, target, deer, bear, to groundhogs. He has killed a bunch of deer and a bear with that bullet in the past, in his Win. M70 heavy barrel .308 Win. I convinced him to give the 175gr Berger Match Hunting VLD bullets a try. He shoots Fed. brass, 44.5gr BLC2, 175gr Berger MH VLD, CCI #200 primer. This is an awesome shooting load in his rifle, well under MOA out to 500yds, and it works pretty good on critters as well. He liked the 175gr Berger MH VLD so much, that he tried the 190gr MH VLD in his .300 RUM, and BINGO he found a load that is just as good if not tighter than his .308 Win.

I use the 175gr MH VLD in my M-24 build match rifle. I can get MOA, maybe a tad better, out to 1K yards. Anyway, I like this bullet a whole lot in my M-24 SWS replica match rifle, with Lapua brass, 43.7gr of IMR-4064, CCI BR2 primers. I like this bullet so much, that I use it in my 30-378 Weathberby as well. This bullet works pretty good on deer size game as well.

[Snakum]

I don't mix and match brass anymore. All OCW development is with Win/BHA, which I'm trying to find more of.

I recently bought what was supposed to be roughly 350 pieces of once-fired Black Hills brass, but only got 147 usable pieces out of it - 167 pieces of BHA brass were sent along with a bunch of NATO and Federal stuff. Nice huh? Anyway, I gave away or threw away all but the good BHA stuff, which I use with my Win brass (samee same .. I measured and weighed to be sure). That's what I use now. I only loaded across different powders and brass so I would always have some kind of data no matter what I got stuck with down the road. With sorted Win/BHA brass and SMKs with IMR4895 I'm starting to get 1/2 MOA consistently to 300 or so if I'm not fighting wind.

Bergers are nice (shot some in 7mm mag), but I can't afford those as much as I shoot. My wife would beat me up. :(

[DGD6MM]

Snakum, your looking for a bullet that is alway's available. If you find one let me know. ;D My .308 Savage Tactical likes 178 Amax's. The cost isn't bad on theese, don't know if they are cheaper then the Sierra but in my rifle they shoot better.

[Snakum]

Over the past few months it seems the 168gr SMKs and Amaxes are usually more available than the 175s/178s for some reason. I guess more people prefer the heavier bullet? If I was shooting past 800 yards regularly I'd consider stocking up on the bigger stuff, but my usual max, even in competition, is 600 yards. The lighter 168s seem just fine there, so I'm trying to learn all I can about them. The 168gr Amaxes are said to remain stable a bit further than than the SMKs and are a good hunting bullet, so I might stay on those once all my SMKs are used up. Depends on how my weapon runs 'em I guess.

Oh ... someone mentioned hunting with SMKs ...

I know Sierra says "Don't" and that there are arguments for not using BTHPs on game. But I used Brown Bear HPs last season and took three white tails. In my AKMs the Brown Bear HPs are way more accurate than anything else I've tried (1.5" at 100) and they seemed to curve and tumble after penetration, and they always came out and left excellent blood trails. I'd imagine the 168gr SMKs, running a good bit faster, would do even better on these small deer we have here in the SE. I wouldn't hesitate to use an SMK on a white tail, and I'd take a shot up to around 400 yards or so comfortably this year. It just seems the Amax might be a better choice. We shall see ... I hope to max out my tags this coming season. I have a lot of room in the freezer and have been shooting roughly 300 rounds per month, long range. The beanfields won't be safe this Fall. :D