Boyds Cheaping Out on Us?

[Hotolds442]

Jake,
Nice job so far, I'm impressed.

[jskowronek]

Yes, mine came with a plastic escutcheon that eventually cracked and separated the laminate. This happened after a glass bedding job so I'm pretty sure I'm out the money I paid for the stock.

[rfd12fv]

have had 4 boyds stocks in over 6 years, so far, no issues. a 5th is on the way (varmint th) for an axis hb .308win. as i do with flint lock long guns, i'll wick in quality water thin cya to the fore end and action areas to help reinforce and stabilize the wood. imho, boyds' is a good bang for very few bucks. i see no need to get all critical on 'em, but it's a free country .... so far. :)

[tper75296]

have had 4 boyds stocks in over 6 years, so far, no issues. a 5th is on the way (varmint th) for an axis hb .308win. as i do with flint lock long guns, i'll wick in quality water thin cya to the fore end and action areas to help reinforce and stabilize the wood. imho, boyds' is a good bang for very few bucks. i see no need to get all critical on 'em, but it's a free country .... so far. :)

Well, I have had only one and I think that is enough, particularly if they won't replace mine (Heritage Laminate, Model 11 TH XP).

The rear trigger guard screw stripped out in the wood upon first insertion and the stock cracked right down the middle at the rear action screw with on the lowest of torque after hand tightening, some 25 rounds into the first firing session.

Had to shim the composite "bottom-metal" to keep from binding the action tight closed. If their stocks are cut exclusively for the "metal" version of the DBM frame surround, I can find no evidence of it on their website or from anyone else herein. Actually there are those who have extolled the use of the composite vice metal. I have had no luck so far.

I see a marginal product here in fit, finish and endurance; soft laminate the yields and cracks under regular pressures. I am glad I did not pay for more cosmetic niceties, as did DaddyUSMaximus, whose build out I patterned the rework of my LH Model 11 TH XP after. At least I can walk away with a good butt pad from Pachmayr.

The rear screw area looked weak to start. There was very little finish coating there as well to add any strengthening. And, there was not really guidance from them on action torque specs except Randy Boyd's video of him ham-handedly cranking down on screws with a large screw driver. At least I used a springy T-Handle hex wrench and then measured torque at shooting with a Fat Wrench.

The stock still loosened almost immediately and cracked in half upon further tightening after shot groups opened up. All at the lowest torque possible to hold.

But I guess you get what you pay for and Boyd's is not a $300-500 McMillian stock ... hardly. But they do left handed ...

[rfd12fv]

Well, I have had only one and I think that is enough, particularly if they won't replace mine (Heritage Laminate, Model 11 TH XP). <snip!> ...


did you voice all of your issues with boyds? either you got a lemon or you did something you shouldn't have done when you attempted to fit the action/barrel to the stock. talk to boyds.

as i stated, i've had many boyds' stock with not one issue, all were/are excellent value and just plain excellent stocks.

number 5's alive ...

http://i.imgur.com/V0bg25T.jpg

[tper75296]

and I see your stock is reinforced at the screw points in the fame.

the real issue here is the Boyd's stock never fit well with the composite "bottom-metal" frame various others here have said could be used (re: part from LW Hunter model). the action bound up with the standard shims specified in the Savage schematic. There are really no directions as to which way the shims should go with the wood stock, as the they are integral to the Tupperware stock that came with the rifle.

Any which way I put them in, they never held the action or the bottom metal correctly "off" the stock far enough for the bolt to close properly or the magazine not to bind on the bolt. Tightening to any reasonable spec discussed in this forum never solved the issue. Additional shims/washers had to be used but they were only marginally helpful.

I submitted detailed pictures and paperwork to Boyd's. they RMA'd it as if was defective, but crawfished later indicating the engineers would have to study the item when it returned. I did nothing out of the ordinary and made no alterations to the stock to "make it work". I have never had this issue with a Remington and an original stock. It just worked.

Since you built the pictured item, how did you place those little top-hat pillar/space things? they don't fit the stock holes (pipe down) and the only way they fit the bottom metal was from the stock side, pipe into the bottom-metal, brim against the stock. My action still bound up and had to be additionally shimmed with stainless steel washers. The front screw held with about 24in#s. the rear action screw continued to loosened after hand tightening and then tightening to same torque. But the stock split right in half there and groups went from .75 MOA to 1.75 MOA in just a few rounds and random flyers after that.

since that time, I have gotten boyd's to admit they cut the inlet based on the "metal" version of the magazine surround frame ... period. They didn't consider or even seem to know of the composite version from the LW Hunter at all. So, if the composite (plastic) frame works (might in some cases) it is by chance and not by intent. They "intend" that the metal surround frame will be used in mounting the stock as with wood stocks (they apparently don't know the LW Hunter and the composite version). They ealso DO NOT say so in so many words on there website. I even read their own words back to them and they acknowledge is was not specific to one type of frame or the other, just that it is patterned after "wood stocks" It is then that I pointed out the variations. They seemed not to know of the composite version of the frame ... with which others here have apparently had success.

I certainly did not. So, I am inclined to order walnut like the 700BDL I traded away. Especially since (foxx, I think) in another thread, indicated the only way to really make the laminate work is to pillar bed with lamp rod (whatever that is). I am not a machinist mate, a gunners mate or a ships carpenter. I just fire aim and pull the trigger on the #### things and hunt when I can. So I will try the walnut to hopefully preclude getting shafted for the laminate and no real instructions as to how they mate effectively .

Unless anyone here has more guidance other than smear Acraglass everywhere with lamp rod installed and start cutting the threads off of screws. There has to be a better way to work with the original supplied parts from the manufacturer and just bolt this up and have it work.

suggestions anyone?

UPDATE: A success story (have posted link elsewhere, as well):

https://landngroove.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/savage-trophy-hunter-xp-260-rem-update/#comments

UPDATE #2 (09/25/2015)

Following the advice of the above link ... starting with a Model 11 Trophy Hunter XP, I now have what is effectively a Model 14 Left Hand in .260 with a monte carlo stock, sans luster bluing. Savage does not make anything like it. My Model 11 Trophy Hunter XP with upgraded scope rings and the Boyd's Prairie Hunter (monte carlo) stock in walnut, high gloss with Pachmayr (sp?) pad and additional options that shoots 120gr Federal Premium NBT to the tune of .93, .76, .66 MOA three shot groups. Now have to move on to 140gr in hand loads and Federal if I can find them. In all, I don't think I can shoot better than that, but the gun might.

That is now about 200 rounds through the barrel, JB Bore Paste lap after about 75 rounds and continual correct cleaning after about every 20 -30 rounds.

I figure this now customized rifle has come to about $1,040. I might have done better price-wise, but not configured as I have it. Only a maybe a used Weatherby, and I don't think they are made LH action.

Boyd's credited my mis-manufactured stock and I ordered the bottom "metal" parts as above. No spacers or washers, just screw off old stock. Absolutely a drop in fit to the Prairie Hunter monte carlo stock with 90 degree finish in walnut with checkering. Fit was great; absolute drop-in, NO adjustments. Finish of the gloss doesn't hold a candle to high end manufacturer supplied stock. But is still a nice job and I like it much better than the satin finish of the previous laminate I had. I

I tried the "plastic" magazine surround again first and its accompanying washers. But it just didn't feel right to me. Felt "spongy" while tightening up, though it seemed to fit fine - 7.4# total. Metal parts - 7.8# and seemed more like what I am used to handling, yet still relatively light. Tightening seemed solid.

Screw torque (and I am firmly convinced of this being right, despite what Savage sight says and some other banter here) is give or take 23-24in# front and 20-21in# rear. That is, with a springy t-handle wrench, oil moistened and wiped screw threads (I will use purple loc-tite if loosening becomes and issue), tighten in succession front and back by hand, then "snug" front, then back; rear trigger guard screw ONLY to point of leveling the guard and screw head with it. Any more will strip it, I am sure. Apply Fat Wrench to specs.

I shot about 20 rounds testing and snugged with Fat Wrench once during firing. The last group I shot was .66 MOA three shot group. I credit the stock for a good deal of it for feel as well as function. I was getting close to that with the plastic-pillar-bedded stock that came with the gun. However, the Tupperware stock doesn't fit that way I wanted and groups were 1-1.25 with the same ammo.

The Boyd's stock fits the action well with the intended components attached and I a very satisfied with the performance. I credit this now as viable replacement for the 700 BDL .30-06 that shot sub-MOA with Remington Cor-Lokt and my hand loads. Though I am still a Remington fan at heart, Savage is winning a place there as well. Next will be a left hand stainless with a Boyd's or an E.R. Shaw Mark vii (Savage), if I can't get Savage to build me an M16 Trophy Hunter XP LH in .260

That being said, anyone want to try the "plastic" surround on their build, I have (2) and will send in express envelope for $10@+ship. would be about $14+ from Savage. Message me here.

[rfurman24]

I did not read every single post in this thread but I would not purchase one of the Boyd's stocks due to the plastic piece. They would be better off just leaving it out with extra material in the stock. Some smiths even suggest laminates do not need pillars but the plastic on the one my buddy bought was spongy.

[foxx]

I did not read every single post in this thread but I would not purchase one of the Boyd's stocks due to the plastic piece. They would be better off just leaving it out with extra material in the stock. Some smiths even suggest laminates do not need pillars but the plastic on the one my buddy bought was spongy.

That's like saying I would not date a girl with red shoes. ;)

I like their stocks, but I bed and pillar them with metal pillars and bore-out the plastic parts for that very reason.

[asr1]

Hello Foxx

when you say you bore out the plastic parts I assume you mean the plastic bushing are you boring it out so the screw head pass through it and tighten aginst the aluminum pillar?

[foxx]

^^^^yep.

Well, I pass the pillar thru the bushing so it sits flush or a little proud of the bushing. The head of the screw tightens against the pillar and covers the bushing so no one can see it's actually resting against the pillar and not the bushing. I consider the bushing nothing more than piece of trim molding.

[asr1]

Thanks for the input I did not think of passing the pillar throug the c bushing good thinking on your side Foxx
my stock came with the action screw holes were off allinged by a good .065" plus so I removed the busing and made my own pillars
now I going to make trim aluminum bushing just for the look.

Thanks

[J.Baker]

I suppose I'd agree. Even though they are ostensibly ready to use right out of the box, to me they are incomplete. There's no problem with selling incomplete stocks, SSS and MDT do this exclusively, I just wish Boyds wouldn't charge more for doing less, which has been something of a pattern of late.

So about two or three years ago Boyds cuts their prices by roughly 35-40% for absolutely no reason, but now that they're realizing they aren't making much money so they start cutting costs where they can and all the sudden they're offering less for more? Might want to rethink that logic. ;)

[DrThunder88]

I'm certainly glad to learn they did, but Boyds has only been on my radar for the last year or so since they introduced the Axis stocks. The trend is still genuine, though: they are producing cheaper stocks. My argument was that the cheaper stocks are lower quality stocks, which makes them less of a value. As I realized through the course of this discussion, they are still a good enough value to be worth the money.

Furthermore, they had, at the time, charged extra for not putting a finish on the stock. That was stuck in my craw for a while and, if I remember what I was thinking four months ago, was what I was thinking of as charging more for doing less.

EDIT: So, Boyds is, as of January 10, 2016, back to charging $10 for NOT finishing a stock.

[FW Conch]

Well, we have the option of going with Stocky's and getting one on special for only "twice the price". ;-))

[foxx]

I wish they still made left handed stocks (thumbholes) for right hand actions. I dont see what the big deal would be, its just a matter of putting the cut out for the bolt handle on the other side,.

[shooterfpga]

I wish they still made left handed stocks (thumbholes) for right hand actions. I dont see what the big deal would be, its just a matter of putting the cut out for the bolt handle on the other side,.
Boyds keeps making up excuses why they wont make a pro varmint for an existing inlet they already sell.

[missed]

Yeah and they won't do the pro varmint in colors again! I wanted a pro varmint lefty for a 700 inlet and they won't do that. I dunno...... You would think that shape and inlet would be huge. Some of the challenges with the stocks is why I made the mini chassis for mine. With how cheap they are too.... My new Manners T4A with the mini chassis and the other options was $1400.

[foxx]

Some of this just doesnt make any sense. I would pay more for special requests that arent all that special, really. I guess they have so much business they dont need to mess with it. Weird. Just plain weird.

[shooterfpga]

I think the thing that pisses me off the most about boyds is they dont even read their emails nor reply on topic. I emailed them asking why they didnt make a pro varmint in the inlet i talked about earlier and their generic answer was, "boyds does not create a pro varmint in that inlet" no kidding?

[Ranger3]

I have two Boyd's stocks, both I would say are great values for the price, I've pillar and glass bedded one and the only problems with that one are problems I've caused. The second one in my Savage 12 FV 223 was a good fit, improved accuracy over the tupperware stock it came with and yes the plastic part is spongy, but I'm pillar bedding that stock and glass bedding it as well. The Boyds made that 223 shoot respectably out to 250 yds (furthest I've shot it) and now has same POI on at least 4 different loads including factory ammo. So for the price I think you can nitpick it, but it's a great value.