When and how to best clean my Savage model 12?

[Fotheringill]

"...Definitely bed the rear of the recoil lug. That could be loose and causing he wear marks you see on the action. Ideally, the recoil lug will fit TIGHT against the backstop of it's pocket/recess...."

Yep.

[wbm]

The other thing is, you really should not have to bed a plastic stock.

If it is a Model 12 BVSS doesn't it have a laminate stock?


I find that the barrel is only making contact with the pillars in a pencil thin area.

The barrel should not be making contact with the pillars at all? I think you mean the receiver.

[Fotheringill]

As to cleaning-

I am a sucker for product claims.
Over the years, starting with Hoppe's #9, then going to about two dozen other brands and products, all around and dedicated for single purpose cleaning, i.e. lead or carbon or copper or other worldly metals or carbon based materials, I have reaffirmed a prior observation, including but not limited to Outer's foam cleaner, Eezox, Iosso, Shooter's Choice products, to a bunch more.

NO MATTER WHAT, ONE CAN CLEAN PER INSTRUCTIONS WITH ANY GIVEN PRODUCT, AND THEN USE ANOTHER PRODUCT ON A "WHISTLE CLEAN" ACTION AND BARREL, STUFF WILL STILL COME OUT ON THE NEW PATCH.

Anyone with ONE product? PatchOut and Accelerator to be received shortly but I am not thrilled at all with sitting at a range in 15 degree weather in a wind waiting for it to work after every five or ten shots.

I like the Shooter's Choice but it stinks up the house when cleaning inside, never mind the trash pail in the kitchen.

[Texas10]

Today I came home with a can of Gunslick Pro foaming bore cleaner as suggested and first tried to apply it through the chamber. I had exactly the same experience with it backing up into the chamber. The tube on the can is too big to fit into the rifling, and too loose in the chamber. So I installed my chamber guide and took a 223 brass, cut the head end off, and with the neck fitting tightly into the chamber guide, and the applicator tube fitting fairly tight into the shell, used that combination to fill the barrel. Worked perfectly. Using my Snap on video borescope, I see that most of the copper was gone after only two applications with an hour wait in between. More applications will follow to get remaining copper and carbon fouling out, but looks like a winner so far. Thanks for tip, guys!

Yes, the stock is a laminate. Yes, the chamber and not the barrel is touching the stock. My bad. The wear pattern on the recoil lug stop in the stock looks pretty even, but may not be "perfect". At this point I am convinced that epoxy bedding is in my future. I will also (first) try the trick of torquing the front screw to 35 in lbs, and torque the aft screw to 20. See how it shoots, and slowly raise the rear screw torque by 5 in lb increments after each 5 shot group and see how it goes. I am fairly sure the rear screw causes the action to be forced into an unnatural or twisted condition, so this test will probably expose any problems with the seating, or I may just tune out the variations.

Thank you all so much for all your generous help and suggestions. This is indeed becoming quite the learning experience.:cool:

[barrel-nut]

As to cleaning-

I am a sucker for product claims.
Over the years, starting with Hoppe's #9, then going to about two dozen other brands and products, all around and dedicated for single purpose cleaning, i.e. lead or carbon or copper or other worldly metals or carbon based materials, I have reaffirmed a prior observation, including but not limited to Outer's foam cleaner, Eezox, Iosso, Shooter's Choice products, to a bunch more.

NO MATTER WHAT, ONE CAN CLEAN PER INSTRUCTIONS WITH ANY GIVEN PRODUCT, AND THEN USE ANOTHER PRODUCT ON A "WHISTLE CLEAN" ACTION AND BARREL, STUFF WILL STILL COME OUT ON THE NEW PATCH.

Anyone with ONE product? PatchOut and Accelerator to be received shortly but I am not thrilled at all with sitting at a range in 15 degree weather in a wind waiting for it to work after every five or ten shots.

I like the Shooter's Choice but it stinks up the house when cleaning inside, never mind the trash pail in the kitchen.

I agree with all of this, except, why would you clean after every five to ten shots? Especially in 15 degree weather lol. I say this not disparagingly, as I used to think like this too, because that's what I had read that you should do. But now I just keep shooting, unless/until accuracy starts to suffer. I do the intensive cleaning at home where it's warm.
I think you'll like the Patch-Out and Accelerator products. That's about all I use anymore. Maybe a quick pre-clean with Hoppe's to remove gross carbon buildup before using the Patch-out. The thing that's great about the Patch-out, is that you can safely leave it in the barrel overnight. I frequently do. Its non-toxic and i do not find the smell objectionable. Infact, i like the smell. Apply the Accelerator first, liberally, with a patch or brass-cored nylon brush and a good bore guide. Leave it in the barrel; do not push it out with a clean patch. Then immediately follow up with a good dose of the Patch-Out, applied the same way. Again, leave it in the barrel for at least 15 minutes, or preferably overnight. Put the rifle in a cleaning cradle with the muzzle ever so slightly down. Put a plastic cup under the muzzle to catch the drips. Come back in the morning and push another wet patch thru the barrel, then immediately follow up with a couple of dry patches. You will be amazed at all the dark blue (copper) that comes out. Repeat if you feel it's necessary but I generally don't. I never waste time scrubbing a barrel repeatedly like I used to anymore. Just preclean lightly, put the good stuff in there and leave it alone to do its work. After its clean I push one patch saturated with Kroil thru the barrel, and one dry one, and call it good.
If you feel that you're getting hard carbon deposits in the throat area, they sell a product called Carb-out that works well too. Just don't get it on any painted or wood finishes.

[GaCop]

Those are some good suggestions!

Yes, the gun was new in box. I asked about breaking it in, but the small locally owned dealer who sold it to me said "just go shoot it". After about 200 rounds and several "cursory" cleanings with Hopps #9 Solvent , accuracy went out the window and I began checking everything, including if I was cleaning it properly. Thus began my "education" about how to clean and then the confusion.

I really like the idea of foaming bore cleaner as I tend towards letting the chemicals do the hard work. I'll try it tomorrow. Hoppe's #9 will clean powder fouling but won't touch copper at all. Their Copper Plus isn't any better.. Best solvent to remove copper is KG12.

[GaCop]

Texas-

If it works for you, go with it. Personally, I would do it that way. My only suggestions on your method are to get an adjustable torque wrench and use a nylon instead of a bronze brush. There is no need to take off the stock each and every time. Use a front and rear rest, gun cleaning station, hillbilly gun station, or sandbags or whatever is handy. You will lose zero every time that stock comes off and goes back on, especially without an adjustable torque wrench. +1. leave the stock alone!

[Fotheringill]

Barrel-nut-

"...I agree with all of this, except, why would you clean after every five to ten shots? Especially in 15 degree weather lol. I say this not disparagingly, as I used to think like this too, because that's what I had read that you should do...."

I do it because that is what I was told to do. Since it is a balmy 19 as I write and am ready to go to the range with an absolutely clean bore (to me), I will shoot until I see group deterioration.

[shooterfpga]

If you have to clean every 5 to 10 shots something is wrong with your rifle. Send it back.

[Fotheringill]

Last night, I used Shooter's Choice bore cleaner, Bore-Tec carbon remover, Shooter's choice lead remover and THEN PatchOut with Accelerator. You know what? This morning, a tight patch came out clean.

[wbm]

You know what else? Now you are going to shoot fouling shots to put a lot of it back so the rifle shoots better. :cool:

[Fotheringill]

Most likely and certainly this weekend.