Beware: 10FCP-SR has been changed

[swadiver]

my 2015 FCP-SR has been excellent. the threads on the barrel were aligned and tight. my Midwest Industries muzzle brake went on perfectly. the factory mag is loading ok. i had originally removed the action to adjust the accutrigger and i don't think i re seated the action properly in the stock. i re did this, and the mag is feeding better. the bottom metal/mag issue is not a big deal for me. how it shoots is. i am a new bolt action shooter and am getting sub moa groups right from the git go. had it at 200 yards for the first time yesterday with less than ideal bench conditions and got some sub moa groups there with Aussie 168 gr SMK and the Federal GoldMatch 168 gr SMK ammo. this is the first time ever that i have shot anything beyond 100 yards, so i am happy with the results.

great budget rifle, imho

[BigDave]

what makes the 2015 a cheapened version? assuming you mean the 2015 model 10 fcp-sr.
A lot of your question is addressed in the previous 15 pages of this thread. Some guys are perfectly happy and leave everything the way it comes. Many are upset, and down right angry thinking they were getting a bottom metal that took a Metal AICS type single stack magazine.

Some owners immediately buy a bottom metal for 200+usd like Accurate Mag, Surgeon, and various others that all take the single stack Metal AICS magazine which is a standard of excellence. You can source these mags almost in a LOT of places. Some guys just buy a specialty after market custom double stack magazine made by Dark Eagle which I hear fits the new 2015 FCP-SR and the current FCP-K.

I want the AICS type mags and bottom metal. Rather than fuss with modifying a brand new 2015 model and not knowing exactly the fit and function of the mod, I found a never fired 2013 model for 800usd. It would have cost me close to 900usd to modify a 2015 to the same as what I bought for 800. Plus I did nt have to order, and install all the extra items (20moa rail, new magazine, new bottom metal)

Just to put things in perspective, the original Accurate Mag models are selling for 1000 to 1200 USED still. It took me five offers on five guns and 3 months to find one(the sixth gun ad) for 800 dollars. So obviously these original models are still highly desirable. Buyers are willing to pay almost twice as much as what a 2015 model cost. So, read all 15 pages of this thread (I did) and you decide. There is no wrong decision. Just personal choice.

IMO, I thought a NIB 2013 model for 800usd was much more desirable than the 2015 model at 600 that to me needs a 200+ bottom metal PLUS a 60 dollar metal AICS magazine, plus a 20 moa rail, PLUS shipping, plus my time to order and pick it up and install all this. My rifle came with a 10 round single stack metal AICS type mag (made by Accurate Mag...VERY good quality) ready to go. There is no rolling the dice whether or not your rifle will feed flawlessly. No mods necessary. Mine is 100% GTG out of the box.

Savage did not magically waive a magic wand over the new 2015 10 FCP-SR and remove almost 500usd from the price. They had to "cheapen it" via the magazine and bottom metal and rail choice. They have no 20 MOA rail (mine comes with one OEM) which I need and is yet another purchase necessary (The old ones sold for as much as 1200usd. Yes, they sold for a lot less near then end of its run. But a lot of guys paid $1000+new and are happy enough not to re sell it. The first model does not come up on the used market often, and rarely for less than 1000usd used!

I saved time, hassle and money by buying what I did. Hearing about the various early run production problems and defects with the 2015 model had me concerned. You just didn't read anything like this with the original discontinued model. Every run has their defects. A few of my model had muzzle threads off axis. Mine are fine. There seemed to be less of a history of defects with the older discontinued model.

My model has a much longer track record of excellence too. So, there is all those things that led me away from the new 2015 model. Now, finally, it sounds like Savage is addressing some of the teething problems with the new run of essentially a new model. It just carries the same name. They are NOT the same rifle. I would buy one if I HAD to. But, I really preferred to avoid it and am more than pleased with my choice.

This may not compelty answer your question unless you read all of this thread and then read old reviews of the model I bought. This is not to say the 2015 does not fit your needs. Its selling off the shelves. It just needed to much time and money to get up to the specs I require.

[miscverb]

A lot of your question is addressed in the previous 15 pages of this thread. Some guys are perfectly happy and leave everything the way it comes. Many are upset, and down right angry thinking they were getting a bottom metal that took a Metal AICS type single stack magazine.

Some owners immediately buy a bottom metal for 200+usd like Accurate Mag, Surgeon, and various others that all take the single stack Metal AICS magazine which is a standard of excellence. You can source these mags almost in a LOT of places. Some guys just buy a specialty after market custom double stack magazine made by Dark Eagle which I hear fits the new 2015 FCP-SR and the current FCP-K.

I want the AICS type mags and bottom metal. Rather than fuss with modifying a brand new 2015 model and not knowing exactly the fit and function of the mod, I found a never fired 2013 model for 800usd. It would have cost me close to 900usd to modify a 2015 to the same as what I bought for 800. Plus I did nt have to order, and install all the extra items (20moa rail, new magazine, new bottom metal)

Just to put things in perspective, the original Accurate Mag models are selling for 1000 to 1200 USED still. It took me five offers on five guns and 3 months to find one(the sixth gun ad) for 800 dollars. So obviously these original models are still highly desirable. Buyers are willing to pay almost twice as much as what a 2015 model cost. So, read all 15 pages of this thread (I did) and you decide. There is no wrong decision. Just personal choice.

IMO, I thought a NIB 2013 model for 800usd was much more desirable than the 2015 model at 600 that to me needs a 200+ bottom metal PLUS a 60 dollar metal AICS magazine, plus a 20 moa rail, PLUS shipping, plus my time to order and pick it up and install all this. My rifle came with a 10 round single stack metal AICS type mag (made by Accurate Mag...VERY good quality) ready to go. There is no rolling the dice whether or not your rifle will feed flawlessly. No mods necessary. Mine is 100% GTG out of the box.

Savage did not magically waive a magic wand over the new 2015 10 FCP-SR and remove almost 500usd from the price. They had to "cheapen it" via the magazine and bottom metal and rail choice. They have no 20 MOA rail (mine comes with one OEM) which I need and is yet another purchase necessary (The old ones sold for as much as 1200usd. Yes, they sold for a lot less near then end of its run. But a lot of guys paid $1000+new and are happy enough not to re sell it. The first model does not come up on the used market often, and rarely for less than 1000usd used!

I saved time, hassle and money by buying what I did. Hearing about the various early run production problems and defects with the 2015 model had me concerned. You just didn't read anything like this with the original discontinued model. Every run has their defects. A few of my model had muzzle threads off axis. Mine are fine. There seemed to be less of a history of defects with the older discontinued model.

My model has a much longer track record of excellence too. So, there is all those things that led me away from the new 2015 model. Now, finally, it sounds like Savage is addressing some of the teething problems with the new run of essentially a new model. It just carries the same name. They are NOT the same rifle. I would buy one if I HAD to. But, I really preferred to avoid it and am more than pleased with my choice.

This may not compelty answer your question unless you read all of this thread and then read old reviews of the model I bought. This is not to say the 2015 does not fit your needs. Its selling off the shelves. It just needed to much time and money to get up to the specs I require.


thanks for the response bigdave. and yes i did read all the pages prior but as you can tell the topic goes all over the place here and there. anyway i have the general jist now of the points and can see how the topic got started via confusion during the individuals purchase. as of now my 2015 fcp does have the rail, the thread protector goes on straight and tight, the mags work fine, and i have a couple dark eagles coming too. so at the end of the day the main difference i see/hear is the magazine well and mags used. so as long as the new model mags work then i am good to go. again thanks for summing it all up for a new savage owner.

[BigDave]

It's a split decision. Some buyers could not get their wallets out fast enough. Others like me want a metal single stack mag and seek out the discontinued model in the used market.

I actually at first wanted a 10 FCP-K until I learned about it having proprietary double stack mags or having to get a conversion by Dark Eagle. I dropped that whole notion when I found the FCP-SR with AICS mags. It's preference. Some guys could not give a hoot. Many guys are willing to pay a big premium to get the AICS type system.

When I go to the range I refuse to load mags. So, I make sure I have enough loaded at home and bring those with me. I intend on buying several (many?) AICS type mags. I can get those for less than $45 each in the form of Ruger Scout (made by Accurate Mag).

Dark Eagle mags are over $100 each shipped and they are out of stock. If I buy five mags adding one mag every month, that comes out to more than 500usd. If I can get them when I want one. So, there is that. But that is MY situation, not yours. Just making my point.

Ten years from now my AICS mags will be worth likely more than what I paid for them. Dark Eagle mags 10 years from now? That's a big unknown. Not an issue unless you buy 5 mags like me. Just sayin.

Of considerable interest is how the value of used pre 2015 10 FCP-SR did not drop a penny due to the release of the $600 dollar successor...almost a 50% drop in price from the original model. I was CERTAIN the bottom of the market price would drop out on the 2011-2014 10 FCP-SR's. I tried to reason with no less than 5 sellers asking $1000+ for their USED versions. Not a single one would budge a penny saying that buyers were offering them more than the asking price of 1K.
I thought I was being lied to. But this happened 5 times. So I had to start checking Armslist twice a day and pounced on an offering of $800(2012, but never fired. Stored in gun safe. Pristine bore!) . It wasnt a pain. Just took a while. I told the guy to take the ad down, I would pay his price, no haggling.

I think paying 1K for a 2 or 3 year old used 10 FCP-SR is ridiculous, but that has been the norm since January of this year.

Had I not found a never fired 2012 version for $800, I would have bought a 2015 model and an ACIS type bottom metal. Quite a few buyers are doing just this.

The other option is dropping the new model into a MDT LSS chassis that has the AICS system built in. Some guys are doing just that. Not a bad way to go in the end.
I was willing to wait for what I wanted at the price point I wanted.

[TheBest]

For those who end up buying the Accurate Mag bottom metal, might as well throw the screws away because one is too long, the other too short.

I ordered some replacement screws from Bolt Depot instead. These are the ones I ordered:
Product #8300 (https://www.boltdepot.com/Socket_cap_Alloy_steel_black_oil_finish_1_4-28.aspx?Selected=8300) - front
Product #8303 (https://www.boltdepot.com/Socket_cap_Alloy_steel_black_oil_finish_1_4-28.aspx?Selected=8303) - rear
Shipping is reasonable and very fast. You don't need to cut any screws anymore!

Of course the stock screw (closest screw to buttstock) is just fine.

[BigDave]

For those who end up buying the Accurate Mag bottom metal, might as well throw the screws away because one is too long, the other too short.

I ordered some replacement screws from Bolt Depot instead. These are the ones I ordered:
Product #8300 (https://www.boltdepot.com/Socket_cap_Alloy_steel_black_oil_finish_1_4-28.aspx?Selected=8300) - front
Product #8303 (https://www.boltdepot.com/Socket_cap_Alloy_steel_black_oil_finish_1_4-28.aspx?Selected=8303) - rear
Shipping is reasonable and very fast. You don't need to cut any screws anymore!

Of course the stock screw (closest screw to buttstock) is just fine.

That isn't right! Thank you your community service post. That is what this forum is all about. I have a Savage installed Accurate Mag bottom metal, so I am OK. But I DID book mark bolt depot site. Man, that is one excellent site. Looks a lot easier to navigate than McMasters. Good find. I can't thank you enough!

[miscverb]

my stock 10 rd mag seems to be feeding better with useage on it. also, getting it seated properly is a little tricky but makes a big difference how it feeds. for my purposes, slow fire from the bench, it will do, for now. eventually, i would rather put the $200 for a bottom metal and mag upgrade towards a chassis, maybe.

i have about 250 rounds through my 2015 savage model 10 fcp-sr in 308 and the mag that come with the gun has performed flawlessly. i usually load to 8, which is plenty for me, and i also find that the mag is easy to load; much easier than an m1a mag for instance. i have found the gun itself to be awesome. i run a nikon prostaff 5 on it and it has been exceptionally accurate with all types of ammo.

[BigDave]

i have about 250 rounds through my 2015 savage model 10 fcp-sr in 308 and the mag that come with the gun has performed flawlessly. i usually load to 8, which is plenty for me, and i also find that the mag is easy to load; much easier than an m1a mag for instance. i have found the gun itself to be awesome. i run a nikon prostaff 5 on it and it has been exceptionally accurate with all types of ammo.

Yes, but many (most?) of us feel cheated if we can not utilize the full advertised capacity of any mag. How are the mags doing now filled to the advertised capacity of 10? Is there any cheaper aftermarket mag than the $100 Dark Eagle which is often out of stock?
Hopefully Savage has or will address their new double stack mag issues. The cost of a Savage mag (if it works OK with 10 rounds) is how much? Less than $100, I am sure.

Nobody ( AFAIK) with single stack AICS mags has any issues loading 10.

My .223 Magpul mags take precisely 30 rounds. I never have had any issue that would ever make me want to load 29 or 28 rounds.
The point is that Magpul advertizes 30 round capacity and AICS says 10 round capacity for their respective mags and they both deliver...pretty much 100% of the time. OK, maybe 99.99% of the time. :)

Are owners still NOT buying Savage double stack mags as spares? Are most owners forking out the big $$ still for the Dark Eagle?

[miscverb]

Yes, but many (most?) of us feel cheated if we can not utilize the full advertised capacity of any mag. How are the mags doing now filled to the advertised capacity of 10? Is there any cheaper aftermarket mag than the $100 Dark Eagle which is often out of stock?
Hopefully Savage has or will address their new double stack mag issues. The cost of a Savage mag (if it works OK with 10 rounds) is how much? Less than $100, I am sure.

Nobody ( AFAIK) with single stack AICS mags has any issues loading 10.

My .223 Magpul mags take precisely 30 rounds. I never have had any issue that would ever make me want to load 29 or 28 rounds.
The point is that Magpul advertizes 30 round capacity and AICS says 10 round capacity for their respective mags and they both deliver...pretty much 100% of the time. OK, maybe 99.99% of the time. :)

Are owners still NOT buying Savage double stack mags as spares? Are most owners forking out the big $$ still for the Dark Eagle?


i have 3 savage mags, yes i have bought them as spares (about $58) and two darkeagle's as well. when i started reading the thread i thought the factory mags were going to be super junk. i have not found that to be the case in my experience running 8 or 10.

[BigDave]

I think many of the early ones were junk. Apparntly Savage as done some mods and/or QC to help solve the mag issue. Nice to hear things are improving. The 10 FCP-SR can be Savages best gun for guys wanting 10 rounds with out having to buy a new bottom metal. But the magazine must be good or the whole concept falls on its face.
Why did you spend almost double the $$ for two Dark Eagle mags if the Savage OEM were doing so well? Thats 200 bux! Just curious.

[miscverb]

I think many of the early ones were junk. Apparntly Savage as done some mods and/or QC to help solve the mag issue. Nice to hear things are improving. The 10 FCP-SR can be Savages best gun for guys wanting 10 rounds with out having to buy a new bottom metal. But the magazine must be good or the whole concept falls on its face.
Why did you spend almost double the $$ for two Dark Eagle mags if the Savage OEM were doing so well? Thats 200 bux! Just curious.

Variety, and my son is probably going to pick a 10 FCP as well. I also run pmag, tapco, gi, circle 10, promag, etc. on my other guns too.

[BigDave]

Variety, and my son is probably going to pick a 10 FCP as well. I also run pmag, tapco, gi, circle 10, promag, etc. on my other guns too.

I hear you on variety. But when I find something at a good price point I dont bother to try and diversify any more.
I am feeling out AICS single stack alternatives right now for my Gen 1 10 FCP-SR.
I bought a poly AICS style mag from MDT. Should fit my Accurate Mag bottom metal. I like it for being cheaper though...plus its in FDE which I prefer.

[MotorOilMcCall]

Does anyone have a PN for the Savage 10rd mag? I can't find them anywhere... Its gotta be cheaper than the DEC mags, and I'm sure with some filing and dremel work it'll be just as reliable. After all, they are the same top metal, just a different follower/spring, and lower box.

[K9-1]

I ordered one and it seems there are a lot of design flaws ,so does any one know if the Qc is working on them

[BigDave]

I ordered one and it seems there are a lot of design flaws ,so does any one know if the Qc is working on them

What design flaws? Of the whole rifle or just the magazine?
I was afraid of that.

My Gen 1, discontinued version is fault free so far. I adore it.

[swadiver]

Well, i talked to Savage today. wanted to inquire as to how to get the target version of the Accutrigger for my 10 FCP-SR. i like the standard Accutrigger, but after shooting my buddy's Remington 700 wih his Timney trigger at about a 12 oz pull weight, i wanted to get something like that. Savage told me that they would not sell the target version of the Accutrigger to me or a gunsmith. period. they said it was for "target actions" only.

i think that is a crock.

so, do I have any other options to get the pull weight down below the minimum (1.5 lbs, I believe) ? i have it set as low as it goes without doing any mods. are there any aftermarket options like what is available for the Remington? Timney triggers for the Savage i believe go no lower than 1.5 lbs pull. is this correct? i know you can buy the target Accutrigger spring separately, but does this lower the pull weight below what the standard Accutrigger already can do?

any help appreciated

[foxx]

The Target Accutrigger has a different sear and trigger engagement that allows for the lighter than 1.5 lb pull. Using standard or Varmint Accutrigger with a lighter than 1.5 lb spring does not work... it will only slip on you do to the fact the sear and trigger need that heavy spring tension to remain engaged or not fall when closing hard, etc. So, a lighter spring will not help. I mean, it might... I have some Accutriggers that are less than 1.5 lbs, but they do slip sometimes and they are not safe for anything but very controlled range sessions. It gets aggravating, too, when it slips, even though it won't necessarily fire due to the safety blade. If I were you, I'd sell the one you have and look at the Rifle Basix Sav-2. (assuming it is a top bolt release action).

[swadiver]

The Target Accutrigger has a different sear and trigger engagement that allows for the lighter than 1.5 lb pull. Using standard or Varmint Accutrigger with a lighter than 1.5 lb spring does not work... it will only slip on you do to the fact the sear and trigger need that heavy spring tension to remain engaged or not fall when closing hard, etc. So, a lighter spring will not help. I mean, it might... I have some Accutriggers that are less than 1.5 lbs, but they do slip sometimes and they are not safe for anything but very controlled range sessions. It gets aggravating, too, when it slips, even though it won't necessarily fire due to the safety blade. If I were you, I'd sell the one you have and look at the Rifle Basix Sav-2. (assuming it is a top bolt release action).

thanks for all the info. going on Rifle Basix website indicates that SAV-2 model is NOT for Accustock models, which is what i have. i do have a top bolt release action. the other trigger, the SAV-1, apparently will work but does not adjust to the sub 16 oz levels, so it is similar to the standard Accutrigger. i guess i am stuck at this point until the day comes when i decide go with an aftermarket stock or chassis system for the rifle.

[Neoloki]

Lori,


First let me say Thank you for the reply, I did not expect one.


The link you sent me from Cabela's website is the updated version after mine and the complaints of others. The description of the retailer specific FCP-SR Model 10 previous to 01/15/2015 did not state that it is a Non-Accustock rifle. The purchase date of my rifle was 12/26/2014.


The response they gave me is very much like yours, buyer beware and there is nothing that can be done now that the firearms has been transferred to you.
I hope that you reviewed the forum post I linked for you and realize that I am not the only Savage Arms customer dissatisfied with the purchase my FCP-SR and lack of constancy in the Savage Arms catalog. I think it would in your best interest as a organization to review this issue with your upper management. From a customer perspective I have some suggestions to resolve future issues.


1. Do not allow retailers to use standard Savage Arms designations for custom built retailer specific rifles. (FCP-SR)
2. Force re-branding of retailer specific rifles. (Retailer's Model 10 by Savage Arms)
3. Make information available on your website for retailer specific builds (My S/N returns not information)
4. Simplify your Catalog and Rifle designations by adding more detail and not recycling them.


Like I said in my previous note Savage Arms produces some the best shooting and feature rich firearms in the United States, but is a shame that a buyer can not confirm even by S/N what they are buying.


I plan to make your response to my concerns and dissatisfaction along with this note public on the Savageshooters.com Forum.


Sincerely,



"Remember the best relationship is one in which your love for each other exceeds your need for each other." - Unknown





From: "Lori Paradis (Savage Arms, Inc)" <support@savagearms.zendesk.com>
To:
Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 1:34 PM
Subject: [Savage Arms, Inc] Re: Disappointed with my Purchase


##- Please type your reply above this line -##
Your request (#71635 (https://savagearms.zendesk.com/requests/71635)) has been solved. To reopen this request, reply to this email or click the link below:
https://savagearms.zendesk.com/requests/71635





http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/4018a1f9d327b516054632ede6dbfeff?size=40&default=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.zendesk.com%2Fimages% 2Fframe_user.png&r=g
Lori Paradis (Savage Arms, Inc)
Apr 2, 1:34 PM
Good Afternoon Dennis,
I apologize for your dissatisfaction. It is common for larger retailers such as Cabelas to offer different versions of our firearms. We don't display these exclusive products on our website because they are not offered anywhere else except for the requesting distributor. The literature provided by the seller should outline the features that are offered. For example, please view the Cabela's website:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/SAVAGE-FCP-SR-RIFLE/1954769.uts
If the Cabelas employee told you that they were selling you a firearm with an accustock, I would speak to their manager in person. Unfortunately, on our end there isn't anything that we can offer as a solution. I am sorry for the inconvenience.
Thank You,
Lori Paradis











http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/5df3fd90d3f6f944505159134a8b5d2f?size=40&default=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.zendesk.com%2Fimages% 2Fframe_user.png&r=g


Feb 2, 6:52 PM
To at Savage Arms,
I spent in excess of 15 hours researching the precision rifle I wanted to buy and decided on the Model 10 FCP-SR. So I shopped it and I shopped it, then headed to Cabelas. Told them what I wanted, paid, and drove home. The first thing I noticed was no AccuStock sticker and a different magazine, I figured that a Cabelas employee removed it by mistake and the mag was a newer version, so I broke the rifle down to adjust the trigger and discovered that it did not have an AccuStock!! I called Cabelas 2 hours after I left the store and they told me no returns on firearms, which is what I expected. So I call Savage Arms customer care, twice with the same result, we are sorry there is nothing we can do for you.
Back to the internet I went, this time with more targeted searches and I found it is very common for buyers of Savage buyers to not always get the firearm they had intended.
This is my 3rd Savage rifle and all 3 are great shooters other than the mag on my new FCP-SR (DBL stack is not good), so being the fixer that I am I learned how to bed an action and went to work. I reinforced the fore stock with a square 1/4" aluminum rod and epoxy, ensured the barrel was free floated, and bedded the action.
Back to the range I went and there was an improvement in feel and grouping!!
I hit the internet again and found this:
http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?40964-Beware-10FCP-SR-has-been-changed
I am not asking for anything as firearms are buyer beware, but I wanted to bring to your attention that your customers are not happy and I have bought my last firearm from your company.









This email is a service from Savage Arms, Inc. Savage Arms (http://www.savagearms.com/).

[swadiver]

Slimey, particular on the part of Cabelas. Savage should be more upfront about different versions at different retailers. I think i remember seeing in small print on the website page of their weapons that different versions are sold to some retailers. VERY small print, though. I would put most of the blame on Cabelas. don't think i will be giving them any of my business. many other choices out there.