New Model 12 BVSS questions

[Texas10]

I just purchased my first center fire rifle, a model 12 BVSS in .223 for target shooting. Right out of the box I was pleasantly surprised to see this gun shoots under 1/2 MOA, but only when cold. I've tried several brands of factory ammo, the first being Hornaday V-MAX 55 gr at 3240 fps and got fairly consistent groups if I waited a minute or two between shots. I also bought some cheap ammo, American Eagle in a 50gr Varmint tip and found it shoots spectacularly, with best being 1/4 MOA. Not being satisfied (that's my ADHD rearing it's ugly head) I bought a LNL reload kit from Cabelas and have been scouring the Internet ever since to learn as much a possible while also being helped by my shooting buddy who's been reloading for 30+ years.

My most recent load seems to be pretty good, a 53gr V-max over IMR3030 powder at 3200 fps, set .025 off lands, but the American Eagle still shoots a bit better, and it's got a HUGE .90 jump!? I have also tried tapping out the American Eagle bullet to get a .025 jump and it seems to improve it slightly, but I get flyers.

I have also tried IMR4320 in a compressed load with a 50gr V-max, and IMR 8208 XBR and 53 gr V-max. Still searching for that "Goldie Locks" load.

Which brings me to this forum and all the experience you guys have with Savage rifles, so please, let the comments begin :cool:

My first question is this: Has anyone tried the "accurizing package" by SAVAGEGUNSMITHING? They promise improved accuracy with additional machining and bedding the stock. Is it worth the 3 month wait and cost? Or is my Model 12 already shooting about as good as can be expected for an off the shelf purchase?

I have many more questions, such as how to clean, when to clean, reloading for accuracy, shooting form, blah, blah. but I'll try to not be a pest.

Thanks for any help!

[foxx]

Welcome!

You've got an accurate rifle. You can bed and pillar it yourself for $30. Don't know if it will help, but, in theory, it will. If done properly, it cannot hurt. For me, the test is, when done, do your action screws turn freely the suddenly STOP when installing, s opposed to gradually tightening. If there is some resistance before "hitting the wall", it is an indication that the action is binding somehow. Simply remove a thin layer of bedding and redo. I often have to do this 3x before I am satisfied with the results. Keep in mind that the whole idea here is to limit the affect of humidity and temp change on the wood stock and to form a nice, solid, stress-free spot for your action to settle into and stay there.

As for finding good loads. It's an art as well as science. Keep good records of conditions and dimensions. Know that things change. You may have found a perfect match for your barrel in those American Eagle, but the next box will likely not be the same and the barrel will change over time as well. Hand loading allows the opportunity to maintain good performance, but it can take a lifetime to master the craft. Get a few different manuals, read, read, read. Ask questions when you hit a hurdle or whatever. There's a ton of experience and knowledge here and great guys here (and elsewhere) all willing and eager to help, but know that some of it is likely to "go over your head" when starting out and you gotta want to listen to advice and apply it yourself as best you can. It's a great hobby. Consider it an adventure. Good luck.

[parashooter]

I have a Model 12 BVSS in 223. its the best shooting rifle I have. I have sent one to savagegunsmithing and it shoots good but not as good as the BVSS. Sent several actins to SSS also. I thought about having this one timed and trued and bedding it but I'm afraid to mess with it. Why try to fix something that's not broken. Mine shoots 1/2 moa are better out to 600yds all day long with 69 gr SMKs. Some people spend 4 or 5 times the money too get a rifle that shoots like this. Just shoot it and enjoy.

[Texas10]

Thanks, Foxx for the quick reply and generous welcome to the forum. I've thought about bedding, and thought about doing it myself as I am not convinced that my barrel is not binding against the stock. The front action screw does not seat like it is metal to metal as you describe. It creaks and groans as I gradually torque the action screws. BTW, the owners manual is silent on what torque to apply, just the order of torque!? I've read elsewhere that 45 to 60 inch pounds is generally correct. Does anyone else have a different opinion?

So to bed or not to bed? And what material to use? I've read everything from using 5 minute epoxy ( not very hard and is prone to absorb a lot of moisture) to Titanium filled Devcon structural epoxy, to various materials sold by a list of gun supply houses. All claim theirs is the best. I tend to trust the guy that's been doing it for several decades and knows what works the best. But if I "screw the pooch" during my first try at it, I've not improved my accuracy a bit. And this is coming from someone with many decades of epoxy and composites experience. So I know how much can go wrong. Or am I too paranoid?

About load development. I must say that I had no idea how complex a hobby this target shooting could be. I had always assumed that the shooter was 99 percent of the accuracy issue. How wrong was that!:apologetic:

BTW; I looked up some of the target postings, some of you guys could probably amputate the nit on the nub of the nut of a gnat! I'm impressed, and definitely see that I have my work cut out for me.

Thanks again,

[Texas10]

Parashooter;

Well, you've just disproved a couple of things I've read on the internet, that a .223 is not much good beyond 300 yds and that 60 grains is about the max bullet weight for a 1 in 9 twist, particularly at distance! I can't shoot beyond 300 at my local range, but your load should work just fine at 300.

I shot some off the shelf Winchester match ammo that used a 69 gr Match King HPBT at 3060 fps, and I thought it shot much worse than the American Eagle 50 gr varmint tip. Or maybe it was the shooter.:ambivalence: BTW; how much jump are you setting up in your load? Does the BVSS have a particular sweet spot? I've been using .025 just as a starting point.

I was not impressed with the brass either, one case was apparently loose in the chuck when turned and the head was octagon shaped with obvious chatter marks in the ejector groove.

Have you tried the American Eagle and if so, what was your impression in your BVSS?

[earl39]

Texas I can say with certainty that a 1-9 twist will stabilize a 77gr SMK out to 1000 yards. Other bullets i cannot vouch for.
I do push them rather hard to be able to keep them super at distance but lighter loads also kept them stable at 300 yards.

[Fotheringill]

BTW- As to torque, go to Savage FAQ's at its site.

[Texas10]

Found it! 35 inch pounds.

[GaCop]

Bedding your action, free floating the tang and barrel will usually show accuracy improvements. Attention to detail when handloading will also pay dividends.

[Texas10]

Those are some good suggestions, guys! I started by torquing the front action screw and partially tightening the rear. Shots were all over the place. As I gradually tightened the rear screw, the groups tightened up, but I can feel that the action is binding in the stock and not coming down firm all at once. So I'm looking into bedding, either myself or professionally.
GaCop, I've learned a lot from all the information on this site, and so glad I found it. I am weight sorting my brass and grouping them within a half a grain. Then I sort again by length. Typically my Federal brass measures between 1.740 and 1.750 if shot several times. So I sort again by .005 groups and clean thoroughly.

On this forum I read about checking weight on bullets and found that the Hornaday 53gr V-Max I am using will vary by several tenths of a grain, with none being exactly 53 gr according to my Hornaday balance beam scale, which I cross checked with an RCBS balance beam and a weight standard, so I am confident it is accurate at those weights.

Interestingly, the Sierra 55 gr. BlitzKing all measure exactly 55 gr. No deviation whatsoever. I just haven't got them to shoot well so far:(

I am also learning about powders. I've shot mostly IMR3031 and found that barrel temps play a big role in how it shoots. Lately I was able to get some IMR 8082 XBR, and find that it is much less sensitive to barrel and outside air temps. Powders continue to be very hard to get, especially if it is known to be accurate and compatible with a .223. I keep checking online, but maybe I don't know enough about how the game is played. No one seems to have any powder:(

I am shooting off sand bags, front and rear and not using my bi-pod at all, except as an aid while cleaning. I don't yet have my own bag set, but almost bought some at Dick's Sporting Goods yesterday for $30.00. But decided at the last minute that they weren't any better than the range bags.

As far as accuracy, my best groups are down to .375 at 100 yds and .750 at 200, when I get the powder/bullet combination right. Not bad, but there remains room for improvement. But that's the fun, isn't it?

Thank you all again, for your support and willingness to share your secrets!

[jonbearman]

See if you can get some benchmark,h322,blc-2, h335 to try. The powders you are using just don't do it for me and what about the eternal varget.

[limige]

Imo if you gun shoots better cold I dare say the barrel is touching something. As it warms it grows and changes point of impact POI

Take two one dollar bills and run them under the barrel and barrel nut. If binds anywhere sand that area out. Once done seal the wood with oil or eurothene.

Bedding would help but just a little sanding may make you happy.

[Arky 223]

As for bullet weights my factory barrel 1:9 loved 69 gr. SMK over VV N 540 also 53 gr. SMK over Re 7 .

[Texas10]

Limige, I'll do the dollar bills test today, although I'm fairly certain that it's binding somewhere in the action area. I can tell by the way the rear action screw feels as I tighten it down, it doesn't come down tight all at once like the front screw does.

Arky, I've read many times about the affection for the 69 gr. SMK by long range shooters however, my "latest and greatest" Hornaday reloading manual only gives charge weights for bullets up to 60 gr. for the 223 Remington. It does references higher weight bullets in the Remington Service Rifle section. So my question is this; can I use this data for my bolt action rifle? Or will I be risking an over pressure situation?

[foxx]

The Savage will handle any pressure any other commercially manufactured rifle of the same chambering will. Of, course, you still have to work your way up cautiously toward max loads because your rifle might build higher pressures than mine will with the same cartridge.

So yes, Tex, go for it.

The only other issue isn't really a safety issue but an accuracy issue. If your barrel is a slower twist, it won't handle the longer bullets as well as a 7 or 8 twist will, so you might not want them anyhow.

[Arky 223]

Tex I loaded with 24.2 gr. and never got a hint of pressure. I even loaded with more powder with no pressure signs, but that was my best load.