Is 10x long enough for 100 yards?

[boy412]

I've had two good range trips recently with my 12LRPV. I can get some really nice groups at 50 yards, but at 100 they really start to open up. Another guy had a 12LRPV at the range (in 22-250...nice gun!) and had a scope that went up to 32x. He had some really nice groups (sub-MOA) so it got me to wondering if this was a magnification issue? I'm freely willing to admit that I may just be a lousy marksman.

:-[

Typically, at 100 yards is 10X sufficient for precision target shooting? Looks like a lot of the benchrest guys are shooting Nightforce optics with 20-30x max magnification. My scope is a Nikon Monarch X, 2.5-10x44. I like it just fine...but I'm wondering if its "enough"?

I'm getting bored with 50 yards!

[82boy]

10 power is workable at 100 yards, but it is much easier to shoot with more power. The benchrest guys that are shooting nightforce are probably shooting long range benchrest, (600-1000 yards) because it is hard to make weight with a nightforce scope. The short range (100,200, and 300 yard) BR guys are mostly shooting Leupold, March, Sightron, or Weaver, in strait powers of either 36, 45, or even 50. (and things in-between) Some of the old timers are still shooting 25 power scopes in both long and short range.

Now the problem with magnification is, the more power you have the more you magnify the problems like mirage. Long range shooters use variable power scopes because when mirage gets bad they back the power down. (It also gives them a larger field of view, to see where they are hitting.) If mirage is extremely bad they may back there scopes all the way down to 10 to 15 power when shooting 1000 yards.

For shooting 100 yards I would prefer at least a 25 power scope. You may not need to sell your scope and buy a new one you could get a bulzEye pro optical booster. http://www.bulzeyepro.com/
I did a review on their products a year or two ago, and fell in love with what they offer. They make a slip on lens that fits on the back of your scope and boost the power of your scope.

[boy412]

Interesting. I have to admit I'd be more inclined to just get a different scope instead of trying to adapt it to suit my requirements with an adapter.

Sigh. I'll take a look at the Sightron scopes. But I really like this Nikon! Its nice and clear and has that mean "don't mess with me" look. As we know...looks are everything in this sport.

:)

[rjtfroggy]

Personally I use a 20x for all my bench shooting 100-200 yard shots. I like to see where my shots are going. Unfortunately sometimes you loose a little focus at the higher powers for shorter ranges. I also have been trying out a 8.5-25 Mueller scope on my 223 and it seems to be working out fine, and to be honest it surprises me seeing as how the scope was only $239 and has illuminated red dot.
If you don't mind a fixed power SWFA has their SS line of scopes 10x-16x-20x, for $319. That is also where the mueller came from, and they will match any legitimate price with a 110% price guarantee.

[borg]

??? 10X is plenty of magnification for sub-MOA shooting that distance, and Nikons are decent scopes. It might be hard to see tiny holes on a dark background with that magnification, but shooting a white piece of paper or one of those high vis targets should help with that. When I was an undergraduate I had a Remington 788 .22-250 that I would take to the range once a week to punch paper and decompress. With a Leupold 3-9X and the right box of ammo I was able to punch dime size groups week after week. That was shooting off of sandbags with multiple layers of clothing and an intense focus on technique--cheek weld, breathing, etc. I didn't even buy the big targets, I just shot the little sticky circles used to patch them up.

Are you sure this isn't an ammunition problem?

[Eric in NC]

I agree - 10x is plenty out to many hundreds of yards unless you are in competitions (although some of the long range shooters use 10x).

What type of "opening up" are you talking about? What size groups? Don't blame the scope yet.

[borg]

I wish I could find the post I made all those years ago (on a different site--forgotten now) because I got REALLY good advice about how to shoot groups. I don't know who it was that responded, but it made a huuuuuge difference. I was told to wear a shooting jacket, but since I didn't have one they said to wear a couple of t-shirts and a sweatshirt underneath a tight-fitting long sleeve t-shirt. Set the gun on the sand bags so the crosshairs are resting your aiming point without you touching it. Don't aim for the center of a circle, aim for the smallest target you can find, like the point of a diamond. (I used to draw an "X" in the center of the target circles and aim for the crossing point of the lines.) Then get into shooting position carefully. Slow your breathing, relax your face so your cheek is like mush against the stock, and memorize the location of your cheek and the feel of the stock underneath it so that you can find the same place every time. Use your back hand to squeeze the sandbags to adjust the height of your crosshairs, maintaining cheek weld with the stock. Always move the gun and with the gun, rather than moving your face. Slow your breathing, slow your heart, close one eye, exhale, and squeeze. Slowly release the trigger, remove the round, and let the gun rest for a full minute before chambering the next round.

Crap, I totally forgot all sorts of stuff and probably got some of it wrong, but that's pretty close. It's been a long time since I've had a gun that shot quite that well, and I'm only just now getting back into shooting.

[Slowpoke Slim]

I have a 3.5-10x50 Nikon monarch scope on my 338. I would say it's "enough" scope for 100 yds, depending on what you're shooting at. Are you trying for "one hole" groups at 100 yds, or just moa or better? If you're really trying for one hole groups, then yes, you need a scope with higher magnification.

I just put a 6.5-20x50 Vortex viper on my 300-500 yard gun. I think that will be plenty of scope for what I'm shooting at. It was $500 in the mil-dot. The standard reticle was cheaper. You could sell your monarch and with a bit of pocket money come away with a pretty nice scope. That monarch isn't exactly a cheap scope either. Or save that Nikon for your next rifle.

[Fjold]

The higher the magnification the tighter the hold that you can do but unless the gun is capable of shooting in the .2s or so 10X is more than enough magnification for 100 yard shooting. I have 24X scopes on target guns and big variables on my long range and varmint guns but you can shoot groups with a lot less magnification.

My 375 H&H will shoot groups like this with a 1-4X scope on a regular basis (it drives my friends crazy when I outshoot their deer guns with it.)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/Fjold/DSC00201.jpg

[rjtfroggy]

Let me clarify my last post. 10x is plenty for 100 yard shooting even for my older eyes, but if you want to place your shots precisely higher magnification is needed to see the holes for shot placement. Along with this you need a good shooting rest good load development and most of all patience and practice.

[JCalhoun]

412;

I think the scope is good enough for now, as long as you can see the reticle on the target. Tell us more about your ammo and your shooting technique.

[borg]

What he said. And post a photo of a target.

[lal357]

82boy thanks for posting up about the adapter for me 10x i fine for mao but i like shooting 1 holers(or try to ) on my 308 i turn it up to 32 power so i have a more precise shot placement and if i do my part shoot in the .5-.3 range on a regular basis
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b104/lal357/savagetiger.jpg
i think i'm gonna try one on the 10x scope that came with my new gun until i settle in on the final scope choice for it .

[boy412]

The ammo I was shooting was Hornady 55gr FMJ-BT. 50 yards was a cinch, but at 100 I had trouble. I may just need more practice, but I kept feeling like I needed more magnification to make bug holes on paper at that distance.

:)

Here are some targets I shot last Sunday.

5 shots @ 50 yards:

http://idisk.mac.com/ericbullock//Public/50_yards.jpg

...and 5 shots @ 100 yards:

http://idisk.mac.com/ericbullock//Public/100_yards.jpg

I do have a decent Caldwell rest, which makes a HUGE difference. Time to start working up some handloads!

Thanks for all of the input. borg, I appreciate your advice!

:)

[lal357]

i ordered a magnifier from bullzeyepro was supprised how fast it arrived ordered it on wed showed up on friday cant wait to get back toinstall it on my 10x scopeand see how it does. if it works good i may get one for my nikon i have on my bushmaster turn that 3x9 into a 9x27 (3x adapter)

[CJ in WY]

The 3-9 Sightron 1 with milldots on the CZ 223 does not print great groups on paper but does very well in the dogtowns out to 400 yards. If I had to shoot small groups on paper there would be a lot 24x+ scopes on my field guns but most are shot at furry little critters so the 3-9s and 12x's Get-R-Done and I get to see the show ;D
Someone mentioned target size and point of aim and that will really help as will adjusting the parelax if available. If you canot adjust the paralax then check weld becomes very important. Confidence also helps a lot = If you think you need more power than give it a try, it will help on paper.

[boy412]

i ordered a magnifier from bullzeyepro was supprised how fast it arrived ordered it on wed showed up on friday cant wait to get back toinstall it on my 10x scopeand see how it does. if it works good i may get one for my nikon i have on my bushmaster turn that 3x9 into a 9x27 (3x adapter)


^^^
Let us know what you think!

[Tch2fly]

Typically, at 100 yards is 10X sufficient for precision target shooting? Looks like a lot of the benchrest guys are shooting Nightforce optics with 20-30x max magnification. My scope is a Nikon Monarch X, 2.5-10x44. I like it just fine...but I'm wondering if its "enough"?

I'm getting bored with 50 yards!


These are 5 shot groups at 100 yds using 9x or less. (12 BTCSS, .223, 69 grain BTHP, Nikon 3-9x40 )

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/FJ80FUN/Shooting%20and%20Guns/group1.jpghttp://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/FJ80FUN/Shooting%20and%20Guns/group2.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/FJ80FUN/Shooting%20and%20Guns/group3.jpg
The flyers in the last picture are all me, the shots were rushed due to a impending target change.

My new FCP-K is getting a 3-15x50, I will be shooting steel targets in Sporting rifle matches out to to 900 yds, it will be more than adequate.
IMO 10x is more than enough for 100 yds and I use my 9x out to 200 with good results. It really does depend on what kind of shooting you do and level of precision required ... it will NOT make up for poor technique.
No offense but looking at the spread on your targets from 50 to 100 I would say your technique would be the first area of business. You do NOT need to see the previous bullet holes to shoot tight groups ... just the opposite, ignore the POI and concentrate on the selected point of aim. Consistent use of proper posture, trigger technique and most importantly understanding your natural point of aim.
Good luck!

[boy412]

No offense taken. Happy to hear I don't really need a new scope.

Shooting technique is hard to learn when there's nobody there to point out what you're doing wrong. More reading and lots of practice is about all I can do.

Thanks for the posts...I appreciate it! This rifle is way better than I am. Hope to tighten that gap soon!

[learjet]

since u reload id recomend u try some different bullets. for 100yds lots of us have good luck w 55g vmaxes. the 55gfmjs can be tough to get a good load for, if not impossible - one way or another i doubt any of the group shooter, benchrest types here would recomend u mess w them for an accurate 100yd load.

stick w the scope u got, decide which of the shooting disciplines u will follow before buyin anything else. benchrest guys like lots of magnification. field/hunters like variables in your range. i like fixed 10s, ive use them on everything from my223 varmint/practice rifle up to my 338 rum.

if ur shootin w guys who shoot better groups let them try ur rifle, and u try theirs. see what happens. horizontal stringing can often be traced to the shooter/breath control.

gl!

lear