Help, Please!!

[AA2atlow8]

I just tried to order a stock from Boyd's. I have a newer 12fv .223 with the heavy barrel. My issue is with the takedown screw spacing. My rifle has a 4.375 spacing. The stock i was looking at had 4.437 spacing and they didn't offer spacing for my rifle. My question to all you guys is what spacing would work for my rifle. I'm having an awfully hard time finding one with my spacing. I know this issue has probably came up a million times before, so I will apologize for asking again.

This is the dimensions on the stock I was looking to buy:

Boyd's Pro Varmint

Barrel Dimensions: Point A = 1 5/16" and Point B = 1 1/16"


Center to Center of Action Screws: 4 7/16"
Over All Length of Part: 31 1/2"
Comes with Boyds' 1/2" Rubber Recoil Pad.

[LoneWolf]

Most likely you have a 4.4 action screw spacing. the other standard is 4.27. Are you sure you measured correctly?

[Fotheringill]

So far, I am with LoneWolf.
Please remeasure a few more times and how are you measuring? If center to center, how are you getting an accurate reading?

I would suggest you measure inside edge to inside edge, get Boyds on the phone (very nice people, BTW) and ask them to measure inside edge to inside edge and see if it then matches.

[AA2atlow8]

Thanks for the quick reply fellers. For the measurements, I'm a machinist and measured inside to inside and added one hole diameter for the total of 4.375 dead nuts. I just got off the phone with Boyd's sales department. I was informed that their house action has 4.437 C-C take down screw spacing. I then asked if they could, as a custom option, drill my stock with my C-C dimensions and the answer was "Nope". "Those stocks are inlett on CNC machines and a different hole spacing is not an option". This actually baffles me. I know for a fact that one line of g-code or a couple of different inputs on the controller on the mill they use to inlet would be all it would take and would take a total of like 10 seconds to change. Sorry guys, I have no faith in Boyd's at this point. The action they inlet for could be one that is 10 years old or older. Looks like to me the old saying, "The customer is always right", does not equate at Boyd's. This is sad because they may be missing a lot of sales because of this issue. Anyway, if someone here has anymore, reasonable options for other than the tupper crap factory stock with my spacing dimensions, I'm all ears.

[AA2atlow8]

This is what I found on Stocky's website, I guess 4.400 is what I need, not 4.437.

NOTE: SAVAGE 2-digit (i.e. Model 10 or 12) SOME SHORT ACTION STOCKS ARE AVAILABLE FOR 4.27" (4 1/4") TAKEDOWN SCREW SPACING AND OTHERS FOR THE 4.40" (4 3/8") SCREW SPACING. THESE ARE THE FRONT 2 SCREWS, THE MAIN ONES THAT HOLD THE STOCK ON THE RECEIVER, MEASURED CENTER-TO-CENTER ON THE HOLES IN THE RECEIVER. SAVAGE CHANGED THEIR DESIGN A FEW YEARS AGO SO IF YOU HAVE A NEW GUN IT IS LIKELY 4.40". THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL FROM MODEL NUMBER OR SERIAL NUMBER, THE ONLY WAY TO BE SURE IS TO MEASURE. PLEASE BE SURE YOU ORDER THE CORRECT STOCK, VERY FEW STOCKS ARE AVAILABLE BOTH WAYS SO PLEASE PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO THE SPECS PRIOR TO ORDERING.

[Dangerous Dan]

Here is a Fast and easy Fix . I am sure you are going to install Pillars ! so when you Do Offset Drill the Pillars Hope this helps You Out DD

[foxx]

Boyds offers quit a few varieties of very inexpensive stocks. Depending upon what you are looking for, they are normally in stock and ship the next day. They are not a custom shop, however, and their prices reflect that. The good news is that your action screw spacing is one of only a few possible varieties, it is nothing unusual, and they do offer it. In all likelihood they have the stock you are looking for in stock and ready to ship. If not, it generally takes a couple weeks or so to make and ship.

[AA2atlow8]

Thanks for the continuing replies fellas. But I still have an issue with Boyd's and it is this. The 4.437 spacing in odd in every respect. In my research, I have not seen this spacing on ANY Savage actions ever made. This is very confusing to me. Out of this list I found in the FAQ section, 4.437 will not fit any spacing that Savage has ever made.

All Long Actions = 5.062" (1958 to present, staggered and center-feed magazines)
1st. Gen Short Actions = 4.522" (1959 to 1987, staggered feed magazine)
2nd Gen Short Actions = 4.275" (1998 to 2007, staggered feed magazine)
3rd Gen Short Actions = 4.400" (2005 and up, center-feed magazine, not in photo)
3rd Gen Palma/Dual-Port = 3.440" (2009 and up, single-shot only)

The closest fit would be if you had the 4.400 spacing. And I don't consider this even close if the actual spacing is like mine at 4.375. This is .062" wider than what mine measures. With this in mind, I would not be able to test fit to start the pillar install. I looks like to me Boyd's needs desperately to update the spacing and at least give a choice of 4.275 and 4.400 which would cover a majority of the later model rifles in the short action category. This makes sense to me, what do ya'll think?

[foxx]

I think I have never paid that close attention to what people say the exact measurement of the action screw spacing is. I have a rough idea of what the dimensions are, and I know the different configurations. I usually consider if it is long or short action, blind mag or detachable box mag, stagger feed or center feed. I know diferent people use different tools and different ways of reporting what thy see. I know some use fractions, some estimate or round up and/or down. It and other aspects of Savage products can be confusing for the newer Savage owner, but the article (and others like it) that you found in the FAQ section here can be very helpful. Also, the membership here can often help clarify or answer questions people might have about Savages and other after market products.

[Robinhood]

AA, you stated you took a dimension and added the hole diameter to arrive at 4.375. Can you give us the dimension you had before adding the hole diameter?

[AA2atlow8]

Here you go Robinhood. Now we have to add or subtract .220 (one hole diameter).

http://s5.postimg.org/5gkakikjr/Inside_Inside.jpg

http://s5.postimg.org/6wvt2nngn/Outside_outside.jpg

I'm getting 4.410 now. I stand corrected. I must have measured another receiver or something, my mistake. Now it seems that it's only .027" off. I guess if the holes are drilled oversize enough it may work. My apologies to Boyd's. I still believe the stock makers drilling them 4.400 are making them much closer.

[foxx]

Also, don't worry about how they measure their hole placement. What matters is that the stock is inletted for the action you have. Other than the single shots, all center feeds are the same dimensions. If you have a center feed, short action, order the center feed short action. No matter what they say they get for dimensions, it is the correct stock for that action.

If it is stagger feed, it is either closer to 4.275" or it is closer to 4.522, measuring from the center of the action screws to the center of the action screws. I suggest you pick the one most similar to those above.

The quality of their product is not reflected by the (perhaps) less than precise description of it's dimensions.

If they had agreed to make a stock with hole spacing as you requested, you would not get a stock that fits your action. The differences between the actions are more than just the space between the action screws, and whatever you or they choose to call what they have, it is important to get the one that matches your model, not your measuring methodology.

You can be certain that your acton screws are not spaced differently than anyone else's who has the same model.

Finally the holes should be drilled considerably larger than the size of the screws. Action screws should be free floated, meaning they should never touch the stock when properly installed. If need be, I'd suggest you drill them out and add pillars that are big enough to allow the screws to free float and also bed the action.

I hope this helps.

[AA2atlow8]

Thanks Foxx all that makes perfect sense. I have the short action center feed. Also, my mag stays in the stock when I remove the barreled action.

[Robinhood]

Here you go Robinhood. Now we have to add or subtract .220 (one hole diameter).



The holes must be a little oversize because the #3 drill is .213

I have those same calipers. They are smooth!

[AA2atlow8]

You're exactly right, Hood. In my experience, usually the drill chuck and drill bit run out a little. Also, if the bit is a little dull, it will cut over-sized holes. And after you tap the hole, it opens it up a few thou. So, with all that, I'm not surprised the holes are .007 over. Most tap charts are for 75% thread depth which indicates Class 3 fit tolerance. To be able to hand tighten most fasteners, this is the most widely used fit tolerance.

AA