Questions/Opinions on DBM and Triggers

[CrankyYankee]

Hello all.

This will be my first Savage rifle build. I'm trying to keep it simple with "put together parts." I'd like to keep the professional gun smithing/machine work to a minimum for now. Purpose will be for .223 Rem. Bench/Prone target shooting for my 8 year old son as he transitions from the Mk II .22lr. Eventually as he grows, I'd like to be able to convert this to a .260 with minimal fuss. So a short action is in order, but I'd like to hear ya'lls thoughts and opinions on what I'd like to do. I understand the transition from 223 to 260 will require a barrel, Bolt face, and DBM at a minimum.

I'm thinking of going with a Choate Tactical Savage Stock and a Karstens Cheek System so I can adjust LOP and Cheek comb height as he grows (and of course fit me too), but that's not set in stone. Weight is not a concern since it will be range only. I don't want to break the bank on this, but definitely don't want to be limited by sub-standard stuff. I handload, so sub-moa accuracy will be a must, but one-holers is not required. I can skim-bed the action myself if needed. Heck, I could even go with a Boyds and have the hardware put in along with pillars.

I've read and searched for pages and pages, and have come to realize that the Savage has more options and considerations than a Rem 700. I'd like to use a detachable magazine system. How is the stock Savage DBM system? OK? Good for range work only? Garbage???

With a short action, it would be easiest to just get some mags for the 260 when it's time and have the bottom metal stay the same. Is that even possible? AICS mags cost more, but if that's one of those "must" upgrades with new bottom metal, then so be it. I don't NEED 10+ round mags and this will not be going into combat, but want him to get used to mag swaps, loading/unloading....etc.

Next is the trigger. Accutrigger or Rifle Basix 1? I'd like 2.5 to 3 lbs and crisp. Again, I'd like to do it myself.

So... I'm starting my build with the DBM and trigger in mind. This will then dictate which model I purchase, and then eventually the barrel which will be a small shank pre-fit heavy(ish) barrel which will be threaded for my suppressor. Minimum outside diameter for the barrel must be .610".

Which models would be the most economical to achieve this myself? Get a Stevens action and go from there? Model 11 and toss the stock and barrel????...etc. I'd like to keep the build under $800 if possible (not including rings, bases, scope). By the way... right hand.

I've read where most of these questions have been asked before on other threads, but would like to hear more just in case someones opinion has changed, newer parts have been made, or someone reads this that didn't catch the other threads.

Thanks in advance.

Bill

[GaCop]

Any short action Mod 10/11, Stevens 200 SA will work (if you can find a 200 short action). Converting from 223 to 260 down the road will require a new bolt head and magazine. The Savage factory DBM set up is ok but after market systems are better (CDI) but cost quite a bit more, especially for the very good AIC magazines. Overall, you have a good handle on what you want to do. Any after market barrel will work well for your conversion be it Criterion, McGowan, etc. The Rifle Basix triggers are good value for the money and will easily adjust to the pull weight your looking for.

[CrankyYankee]

Thanks for the response GaCop. Confirms what I've been thinking.

Bill

[LoneWolf]

Yep, get a Savage short action with top bolt release, pick a stock you like (choate is very good value for the money), I like the RB SAV-1 and have it in 2 rifles (very easy to set up), Pick up a prefit from one of the sponsors (got my first one from GunShack and second from the McGowen Outlet), EGW one piece Scope mount, and your optic of choice.

Only other things you need is the tools to work on it.

Building Savages is super easy and after your first one you will be addicted.

[foxx]

All of above is good. Because it is your plan to eventually go to .260 ( I agree), you might consider starting him out with .243 just because it has the same bolt head (no big deal) and magazine (bigger deal) as .260. .243 might not be as mild as .223, though, I don't know.

[reynoldsfamily3]

I'm using a CDI bottom metal on a Choate tactical. You can get the stock from CDI and they will do the inletting cheaper than I could find the stock and send it to them to have the work done. Choate makes a tactical that is fully adjustable, CDI can get them too get in touch with them for time and price. I'm using the Rifle Basix SAV-2 trigger and like it. It takes some time to set it up but it is nice once you do.

http://www.riflestock.com/store/do/product/26-06-12
http://www.cdiprecisiongunworksstore.com/rifle-stock-packages/

[big honkin jeep]

Could go with 22-250 instead of .223. Recoil would still be minimal and you would already have the correct bolt head and mag.
The Choate stocks depending on model can be quite heavy so a factory youth stock or cutting down a factory unit to whatever length of pull you want may be a better option for now and definitely more budget friendly. You could even add an inch or so later back to the length with a slip on recoil pad with absolutely no fuss. then down the road if you want a tactical style and he's can handle the weight upgrade it with the money you saved.
Making a Karsten style adjustable cheekrest from kydex is a very easy DIY project with plenty of online how to videos etc. I usually read a few articles and watch as many videos as I can find to corroborate and to glean ideas from before starting and also to weed out bad internet info/ideas and then develop my own plan before starting. It would save some bucks and you could get the kid to help :) I think the last one I made cost about $10-$12 inclusive of knobs and bolts from the hardware store and a sheet of Kydex I purchased online.
The 22-250 uses the same bolt face as the other .308 family cartridges and so the mag should be the same as well and feed anything from that family of cartridges also.
I haven't had any problem with factory DBMs over the years. Just be aware when shopping that the XP rifles are going to have plastic/budget parts while the standard rifles will have metal.
The Accutrigger is a really good factory trigger and it seems a lot of manufacturers are trying to imitate it.
With these points being made and if I were in your shoes I believe I would buy an accutriggered DBM 22-250 and go from there.
I'm sure he will be pleased whatever you decide and thanks for passing it on.

[CrankyYankee]

Great info folks.

big honkin jeep... base on recommendations above, I was looking at the Model 11 Trophy Hunter XP youth. I'd like to keep .223 because I reload for it. I hear ya about the Kydex. I have taken my Rem 700 LTR and Marlin XS7 and modified the stocks with kydex. Covered with a can of Krylon makes them more user friendly for a fraction of the price. I'll see if I can upload pics of the kydex modifications.

Question... Is the Model 11 top bolt release? And what are the plastic XP parts that are not on standard rifles... Stock and mags??? As long as the action and bolt are solid, everything else will eventually be upgraded as needed.

My plan is to start with the 11 XP youth, add a pre-fit heavy(ish) barrel and thread it for my suppressor. I'll open up the barrel channel as needed and skim bed the action for some stability, then hit load developement. At that point, if we're having fun and want to take it to the next level, I'll upgrade the stock, trigger, DBM....etc. I like the info from the CDI link above. If we decide not to pursue the upgrades, I can just put the factory barrel back on, do some kydex/krylon magic, and leave it as a walk around critter rifle.

I'm still reading old threads... but how does this sound so far? Any problems I'm not forseeing?

Seems like folks are building off of the Axis models, but i'm getting the feeling that it's more difficult/tedious. That true?

Again, thank you all in advance.

Bill

[foxx]

I can answer some of your questions... The trigger guard and all bottom "metal" is plastic. The trigger guard can be easily swapped for metal, they are the same design. (Although it would need a metal trigger guard for bottom bolt release). The rest of the bottom metal is a different design and relates to the mag. It can be upgraded later, but the mag and bottom metal and stock must all be upgraded together. (The factory plastic stock for most XP's are solid, one-piece design, the "bottom metal" is built into the stock and not detachable.) I do, however, own a youth model that has the plastic stock with Axis style mag and the bottom metal is detachable. I don't know if the current youth models are that way. Sometimes they build with what they have untill they run out and then switch over.

In all likelihood, the youth model will be bottom bolt release. Mine is. One good source for top bolt release is the Hog Hunter, and it is avail in .223, but blind mag. I still think it is a good starting point for builds.

[big honkin jeep]

If you already load for .223 then a set of dies in 22-250 wouldn't be a big deal and you probably have everything else you'd need to load for it on hand. Just suggesting it instead of .223 because of the bolthead and magazine compatibility later on with nearly every other short action cartridges on the market. That and I love my 22-250s, stupid accurate, no recoil, smokin fast and flat. Personally I'd forgo the XP or Axis (economy offerings) for a standard model just to have the metal parts and mag as well as the 10 series action instead of the Axis. A lot more aftermarket available for standard model 10s than the axis. The XP (even the trophy hunter) is an economy package gun and the detachable box versions have the plastic mag tab as well as the plastic surrounding "bottom metal". They do this to offset the cost of topping it with the Nikon BDC scope. I'd also try and find a top bolt release rifle just because of the available aftermarket for em. If you really want to dive in find an older flatback model and adjust the trigger, bed it, install a bolt lift kit, and any other fun mods you can think of. i have a pile of the older flatbacks that shoot fantastic. the mods are cheap but add up after while. I'm not sure how big your 8 year old is, but heavy stocks and barrels are usually not something I even consider on a youth rifle.