Vortex Scopes

[GaCop]

I've just boxed up my cheap Crossfire 8X32X50 because it started acting up after four years of use. Talked to Brian at Vortex and they will take a look at it either fixing it or replacing it. Considering the original Crossfire is no long made for Vortex, I guess I'll most likely upgrade to a Crossfire II.

[yobuck]

When you mount these things you need to torque the screws to the reccomended settings. Thats not enough to keep the scope from
slipping on heavier recoil guns. When you add torque to keep it from moving you will lose the ability to dial the scope. Or at best the
dials wont be dependable enough to count on. So if dialing the scope is a must have feature, and you will be mounting it on a large
magnum cartridge gun, id reccomend a different scope. It might take 20 shots or more before you notice the scope has moved.
And please, no bs questions about ring lapping. The tube thickness is thin and thats the issue.

[limige]

yo buck, your wrong you do not increase torque to try and stop a scope from moving. buy better rings. something with more surface area and screws.

and/or add additional rings. you can put three rings on one scope if you have the room on the tube

screws are torque to yield, if you continue to tighten them you weaken the screw and cause it to fail. the metal will stretch and loose its torque.

[Procule]

Limige youre one of say less then 10 ive ever heard discuss TTY of bolts. Its super critical. Especially in the engine realm. Same concept though.
Top it off with over torqing lends it self to possibly stretching the threads in the ring and or distorting tbe tube.

Great topic.... I love my viper 6.5x20x44

[yobuck]

yo buck, your wrong you do not increase torque to try and stop a scope from moving. buy better rings. something with more surface area and screws.

and/or add additional rings. you can put three rings on one scope if you have the room on the tube

screws are torque to yield, if you continue to tighten them you weaken the screw and cause it to fail. the metal will stretch and loose its torque.

Originally we used Weaver tactical rings when we installed the scope. Weve used these same rings on other guns with heavy recoil such as the various ultramags.
They are a wide ring having a total of 6 screws holding each cap. When we first installed the scope i didnt even own a torque driver and never had the need for one.
I tightend the rings as i had been doing it when installing scopes for over 50 years. HOWEVER, in this case with this scope we couldnt zero the scope because the
adjustments wouldnt work properly. I called Euro Optic where my son bought the scope and within hours a factory rep called me back. He asked if the gun was handy
to where i was talking and it was. He suggested while on the phone with him loosen the ring screws which i did. He then asked me to check to see if it was tracking
which it was. He then suggested my getting a torque driver and tighten the ring screws to 15 inch pounds of torque max. We also found that it wouldnt give us 1200
yards of elevation even with the 20 minit base with the 338x378 cartridge in that gun. So we next installed a 40 minit base which brought about more problems.
We couldnt zero the gun due to windage being off center with the scope elevation near the bottom. We now have U S Otics windage adjustable rings on the scope
which are $216 a pop. They are of excellant quality with 4 screws holding each cap. They also solved the windage zero issue. The reason the scope moves in the rings
is because the tube is thinner than other scopes like say Leupold or Nightforce and as a result the screws cant be tightend enough to hold the scope from slipping on
heavy recoiling guns. Nightforce rings by the way have 4 screws per cap also. My own 338 has about a 25 grain heavier powder charge than my sons and the scope has never moved.
If these scopes work for you on your gun thats wonderful. But thats the issues weve had with them.

[limige]

Yeah I use warne rings myself. The point was quality rings. If you were concerned about more then surface area can be key but again quality rings.

Overtightening a screw is never the answer.

[GaCop]

Got my "old" Crossfire back from Vortex with in 12 days. They replaced the elevation and windage adjustments, cleaned and lubed it and mailed it back. I'll report on how it does when I put it back on my 6mm BR.

[cowtownup]

I performed a tall target test on my Viper HST yesterday. I dialed up 30 MOA and was expecting a 31.41" shift in POI. My actual shift in POI was 31.5" for a correction factor of (0.997) which I feel is pretty good. I also shot a box test and dialed 7 MOA steps since my target was only so big and it performed well there also. I want to do that test again and try to shoot a little slower but it wasn't bad.

[tomme boy]

Wipe the inside of the rings with liquid electrical tape. Torque to the recommended value and let it sit for a few days. It will not move again.

[GaCop]

Wipe the inside of the rings with liquid electrical tape. Torque to the recommended value and let it sit for a few days. It will not move again. Good to know, thanks.

[savage2014]

China made optics like vortex crossfire II 6-18 and weaver kaspa 4-16AO were crap. This is based on my experience.

[sav250]

I have the PST-210S1A 2.5=10 x 44 EBR-1 on my .204:

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr145/whitehouse_2008/Savage%20Rifles/P5280089_zpsdc829616.jpg

It is 30mm instead of an inch in tube diameter.

I have two Swarovsky scopes on other rifles. One is the 1" tube 3-9X on my .250 Savage 14 and the other is the 30mm tube Swarovsky on a Mannlicher made in Austria.

Swarovsky is Austria, Mannlicher Steyr is Austria.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr145/whitehouse_2008/Centerfire%20Rifle/001-4.jpg

The most expensive scopes I have compete with the Vortex. I have no idea what people are saying about Vortex when they come from the negative side.

[J.Baker]

I believe that they are falling off and for good reason. Every vortex I have ever had was total junk. Everyone of them needed to be sent off for repair and while the service was great I would rather of not had the pleasure of using it. For the money a leupold is way better. Might cost a bit more but you won't have to send it off multiple times.


I have lower end Crossfire's to the higher end PST's mounted on nothing bigger than 6.5-284s none lasted more than 100 rounds down range. I had one viper I sent off three times the last time I got it back I just through it in the trash.

Doesn't matter what brand someone's talking about or what forum it's on, there's always that ONE GUY that's had every one he ever bought be bad and he's always the first one to chime in badmouthing the brand whenever their name comes up. Not saying you're lying, exaggerating, stretching the truth or anything like that, just making the distinction that you're obviously THAT GUY here on this forum when it comes to Vortex.

However, given my personal experience with several products from them over the years and the hundreds of favorable comments, posts and reviews for them on this and hundreds of other forums I think it's safe to say your experience is a rare exception rather than the rule. Conversely, I've had several suspect Leupold scopes over the years and know several people who have had to send their Leupy back in for repair or replacement. Even so you don't see me running around badmouthing Leupold every time someone mentions them, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Leupold if I thought it offered the best bang for the buck and was the best suited for what I needed it for.

As for the original question as to why they prices have dropped, that's typical for December/January as the retailers are trying to clear our last years models to make room for next years models. There's nothing wrong with the product, there's just a new/maybe improved version on the way. Often times the manufacturers will even give the retailers a credit/discount to move them out at reduced prices to ensure they will place orders for the new models. As others have noted, if you're patient and don't need the latest/greatest it's a great way to get much more scope for your money that you would waiting for the new models.

[Twinsen]

I had my Vortex love shaken recently. I installed a new 4-16 on my FN and put up the best groups I've ever shot. Then I did a tracking test and one shot was very far off of where it should have been. If it was me, it was the only shot I made that day that wasn't amazing. It was very far off though, like 3-4 inches from where it should have been. I dunno. I have to retest.

[limige]

There are such things as flyers...
Did the scope return to zero?
Bet it did

[sav250]

I've had Burris, Leupold, Swarovsky, Schmidt and Bender, Weaver, Bausch and Lomb, Khales, Zeiss, Docter, Miopta, Balvar, you name it I have shot a group with it.
Flyers are hardest to control and they appear in a five shot group about 50% of the time. The guy that taught me how to reload in 1973 took 10 shot groups with all of his rifles. Not five shot groups. He wanted the best accuracy from a solid bench but not all need that sort of hair splitting. We are satisfied when we know the limitations of our caliber and scope.

My Savage Model 14 in .250 Savage deserves the best scope and that's why I put a Swarovsky on it:

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr145/whitehouse_2008/Savage%20Rifles/P5280081_zpse083093b.jpg

There are 3 places a rifle is vulnerable to inaccuracy:

Scope
Mount
Rifle accuracy (not needed in close shooting)

In GE it's the mount that is important and the the scope has to be optically superior since they hunt at night in Germany.

In USA we think we pay less for the scope than the rifle and this contrasts with Northern European countries.

I can say spending money on an expensive scope is worth more than any rifle because you can shoot out a rifle barrel in 7.5 Seconds (total time to wear or corrode most barrels with chamber erosion and rifling damage).

I do believe there are flyers we do unintentionally despite our knowledge to be consistent. A flyer shoots out of the 5 shot group.

My way of testing a flyer is to increase the shots at the target from 5 to 10 and then decide what is happening.

[Twinsen]

There are such things as flyers...
Did the scope return to zero?
Bet it did

Perfectly. Any other day, I'd have been sure it was me and not the rifle or scope. But that day I was shooting great. So I'll say I'm 50/50 on it. A retest will tell me what I need to know.

As for "flyers", I always thought that was BS for guys to say their rifles are more accurate than they really are. Maybe that opinion will change if my shooting gets better.

[FEENIX]

It is 30mm instead of an inch in tube diameter.

Swarovsky is Austria, Mannlicher Steyr is Austria.

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr145/whitehouse_2008/Centerfire%20Rifle/001-4.jpg


She's a beauty!

[skoger]

I have 2 vipers and an older 30mm, 8x32 Crossfire. No issues, don't baby them, all have retained zero, crystal clear, work as good as my Leupolds, Burris, Weavers, Redfields and Nikons. I am partial to the older USA made Burris scopes. The Vortex scopes I zeroed, shoot from 100-1100 yds, no issues. I don't crank my elevation knobs a lot, use the mil dots and common sense. My 2 cents worth.

[jkingen]

I have a Viper 6.5-20x50 mildot on a 243 winchester and after probably 200-300 rounds it started to shift zero when magnification was changed. Took it back to where I bought it and my friend who is the gunsmith at the shop shot it to verify this and then sent it back and put a new one on under warranty. Has been fine ever since with probably another 500-600 rounds since replacement. my friend that is the gunsmith put a nice mount and rings on it (I told him to mount the scope how he would if it was his rifle whatever it costs). He has the same scope on a savage target action in 6mm Rem Ackley that he used for 1000yd benchrest when he was in gunsmithing school and had no issues with it, which is why I bought a Vortex viper in the first place.