nosler 260 remington brass review

[BillPa]

for you guys turning necks what are you using? how do you like it? would you buy something else if money was no object?

If money is no object you must not be married! :p

First of all I'd buy a modified mic from K&M....http://www.kmshooting.com/catalog/miscellaneous-items/mitutoyo-wall-thickness-micrometer_60-degree-modification.html

A mic with a flat spindle, even with a round anvil averages the walls and only until it contacts the shoulder. The 60* spindle allows accurate measurements all the way to the shoulder and at any point along the entire neck length.

Turning tools?
I use a old Sinclair NT1000 for touchup or small batches, maybe 10 or less. For larger quantities ....
http://i31.tinypic.com/2hhkkgj.jpg

Bill

[LongRange]

If money is no object you must not be married! :p

First of all I'd buy a modified mic from K&M....http://www.kmshooting.com/catalog/miscellaneous-items/mitutoyo-wall-thickness-micrometer_60-degree-modification.html

A mic with a flat spindle, even with a round anvil averages the walls and only until it contacts the shoulder. The 60* spindle allows accurate measurements all the way to the shoulder and at any point along the entire neck length.

Turning tools?
I use a old Sinclair NT1000 for touchup or small batches, maybe 10 or less. For larger quantities ....
http://i31.tinypic.com/2hhkkgj.jpg

Bill


LOL...how'd i know you'd post up a lathe Bill...im marreid...been with the same girl for 18yrs now...why or how she puts up with me is beyond me. my thought is as long as theres food,the bills are paid and her and the kids are taken care of and we have a few bucks in the bank theres not a lot to say ...plus most of the money i spend on shooting supplies and tools is from side jobs ;) .
i guess i should of said "if money was no object up to about $500 bucks"...id love to have a lathe and will some day but not next week lol.

Bill is there a digital mic you'd suggest or is that mitutoyo the way to go and between the K&M,21st century and the PMA which tool would you choose?
the 21st century is the best deal as far as outta pocket and uses most other makers parts. i like the K&M as well and plan on using the K&M carbide cutting pilot even if i get the 21st century tool so im leaning more towards the K&M as i like to 1 stop shop.

[LongRange]

I'm still happy with my 21st century.
The dial adjustment registers with my plate mic perfectly and the depth is easy to set.

i like the 21st century tool and may end up with it as it will use the K&M cutter pilot...the one thing about the K&M i dont like is that its small but there are holders to solve that issue...right now its a toss up between the two...i like the PMA tool as well but its more of a piece together set up instead of a kit and i see more ppl use the K&M and the 21st century tools than any other.

how does the tool feel in your hand is it comfortable?

[BillPa]

Bill is there a digital mic you'd suggest or is that mitutoyo the way to go and between the K&M,21st century and the PMA which tool would you choose?


I don't know if a digital tube mic with a 60* spindle is available but there are other fixtures that will do the same thing, this one for instance...
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/measuring-tools/case-gauges-headspace-tools/redding-case-neck-gage-w-indicator-prod39927.aspx
I guess it mostly depends what one prefers to use and the price. Either one allows you to measure accurately all the way to the shoulder. When I turn necks I just barely nick the shoulders, maybe a .001" or so.


Using a mic or indicator with a 60* anvil allows measuring all the way to that cut.

With that said, I only have a few with tight necked chambers. My 250Imp for instance is a .283" so I need to turn the brass with bullets seated to .281". For the rest "if" I turn its only maybe 50-70%, just enough to knock off the thicker portions and true them up a little. Other than that I don't waste my time.

Bill

[Steelhead]

i like the 21st century tool and may end up with it as it will use the K&M cutter pilot...the one thing about the K&M i dont like is that its small but there are holders to solve that issue...right now its a toss up between the two...i like the PMA tool as well but its more of a piece together set up instead of a kit and i see more ppl use the K&M and the 21st century tools than any other.

how does the tool feel in your hand is it comfortable?

Yes!
Use it with a small Makita l-ion drill and 21st C case holder.
i usually put on a movie, light a cigar and get to work turning necks.

[LongRange]

I don't know if a digital tube mic with a 60* spindle is available but there are other fixtures that will do the same thing, this one for instance...
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/measuring-tools/case-gauges-headspace-tools/redding-case-neck-gage-w-indicator-prod39927.aspx
I guess it mostly depends what one prefers to use and the price. Either one allows you to measure accurately all the way to the shoulder. When I turn necks I just barely nick the shoulders, maybe a .001" or so.
http://i60.tinypic.com/3088hsy.jpg

Using a mic or indicator with a 60* anvil allows measuring all the way to that cut.

With that said, I only have a few with tight necked chambers. My 250Imp for instance is a .283" so I need to turn the brass with bullets seated to .281". For the rest "if" I turn its only maybe 50-70%, just enough to knock off the thicker portions and true them up a little. Other than that I don't waste my time.

Bill

Thanks Bill...i think ill get the K&M mic...i like that it will measure the entire neck.


Yes!
Use it with a small Makita l-ion drill and 21st C case holder.
i usually put on a movie, light a cigar and get to work turning necks.

Thanks steel...im still not sure on which tool im going to get but its looking like the K&M as it will be a one stop shop plus 21st is closed until the 4th and im impatient lol.

[LongRange]

Well ive settled on the K&M tools and will order monday morning as ive got a few questions for them before i buy. I also talked to shilen about my barrel and they dont offer a tight neck 260 but they do have what they call a tactical chamber which according to shilen is a tiny bit tighter and the neck is .297 their standard neck is .299 so im going back to the lapua brass which has a loaded neck size of .295 so ill just clean the necks up instead of full turning...i call brunos and talked to them as that is where i ordered the lapua brass i have now and they had 2 boxes left with the same lot number so i ordered those.
I well keep shooting the 50pcs of nosler brass im abusing to finish this review but i think ill sell the other 100pcs after i clean the doughnuts up.
Ill post when i get my neck tools and keep this up dated as i shoot the 50pcs.

[LongRange]

so i called K&M first thing monday morning and spoke with Roger...super nice guy...very helpful and i can say that after talking to him he has made a customer for life...i had a few questions and concerns about the tools and after talking and him explaining he said "if your not happy with the tools for any reason after you use them give me a call and i will refund you money 100%"!!! so needless to say i ordered and he said im slammed after the holidays but ill do my best to get them out tuesday...and he did...and i got them today...4 days from phone to my door!! they are VERY well made and the ERGO holder is awesome and fits my hand very well so turning should be a pleasure.
Roger suggested that i dont buy the 60* mic they have as im not getting paid to shoot and id never notice the difference if my necks were not PERFECT...he did also say IF you REALLY want the mic ill gladly take your $150 bucks but he thought id be fine with the dial indicator i had lying on my bench...now that goes a long way with me as most PPL would of said"OH YEAH...you gotta have that" and never thought twice about taking that $150 bucks.
anyway ill be turning some necks and cleaning out some doughnuts tomorrow evening and then ill get back after this review....on a side note my new shilen barrel went into chambering today so i should have that in about a month...just in time for the start of match season.

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/photo1-37.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo1-37.jpg.html)

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/photo2-37.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo2-37.jpg.html)

[LongRange]

well i got the 50 pieces of abuse-able brass turned last night and it went surprisingly well...i only gulled one case and its not to bad im going to use it.
another thing i did and it didnt work out as expected was i set the expander die screw to stop expanding just short of the doughnuts and then used the carbide cutter pilot to ream the doughnuts while turning the necks...after sizing the necks and seating a bullet the necks are 0.005 to 0.001 thicker at the shoulder(only tried one case)so im not sure if the doughnuts will form again or not? as i cut(what i figure)0.001 into the shoulder so im hoping they dont. another thing i noticed was that the necks were tapered as i set the cutter to just touch the thin side of the case at the mouth and as the cut went down the neck it removed more and more brass. that made me a little nervous after the first case so i sized and seated a bullet and the neck was .292(which was what it was right where the bullet and the neck met before turning)all the way to just above the shoulder which was .292.5...before turning the loaded neck size was .293 to .293.5 and neck walls were 0.014 to 0.015...after turning all neck walls are 0.013...all measurements taken at 4 points on necks....not bad for my first time turning necks i guess.

the K&M tools....very nice,everything works very smooth and the expanded cases fit nice and snug on the tool pilot. the cutter is very sharp and goes through the brass like butter(but IMHO could be a tiny bit wider)if you feed the cases to fast it leaves tiny groves in the necks. one of my concerns i talked to Roger about was the angle of the cutter and the cutter hitting low on the shoulder...its perfect...it cuts a nice clean cut into the shoulder but dont hit low like ive seen pictures of. another thing that i think could be improved upon is the pilot adjustment...its just a set screw...but would be nice if the pilot had an adjustment screw...dont get me wrong,its simple and easy to adjust but could be made to adjust easier...im pretty sure 21st centurys tool has an adjustment screw for the pilot? Steelhead will know he has the 21st century tool.
also if anyone buys the K&M...GET THE ERGO HOLDER...the tool is small and the holder is a must have IMHO...also get a small drill or cordless screw drive...i did and im glad i did...i cant imagine turning by hand.

drill...$29 bucks and works fantastic(so far)its got plenty of power and turns 180rpms...

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-16.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-16.jpg.html)

a couple of finished pieces...hoping to hear some comments on the turned brass...good and bad...

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-15.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo-15.jpg.html)

[Steelhead]

Yes, the 21st century has a set and adjustment screw.

A drill is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.

What brass was that?
I'm surprised they're not cleaned up more at .013.

Looks like 21 century profiles the cutter differently.
Mine cuts a wider swath on the shoulder.

[LongRange]

Yes, the 21st century has a set and adjustment screw.

A drill is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned.

What brass was that?
I'm surprised they're not cleaned up more at .013.

Looks like 21 century profiles the cutter differently.
Mine cuts a wider swath on the shoulder.

nosler brass...and yes the K&M has a much sharper angle and cuts like a z..so to speak..in the shoulder instead of a smooth cut which is what i wanted. ive talked to a few guys that turn and they have all said the same thing "to get a cutter that cuts a step in the shoulder" not a smooth transition or doughnuts will return after a few firings. i shot all 50pcs today and bullets drop right into the cases...so far so good.
IMHO John(21st century)and Roger(K&M)should get together as with combing both tools they would have the PERFECT neck turning tool!!

[LongRange]

well 4pcs of the abused brass will be retired after today.the primer pockets are loose and have no resistance at all when seating the primers but will still hold a primer in place even if tapped on the bench. now before anyone says nosler is junk keep in mind that ive kept track of this brass and have purposely abused it and have 5 of the 50pcs that have been reloaded now 6xs...and way beyond what most would even think of loading...i wont post the load but will tell you that ive shot 142g SMKs out of a 260 remington to 3075+fps out of these 4pcs and the 5th in this group is still snug...for those that dont know thats getting into 6.5 284 speeds...as for the 5thpc im sure its done now as i shot all 5 of these with H-hybrid 100V at 2930 to 2955fps today...not a good group i know....ONCE AGAIN DO NOT START HERE THIS LOAD IS WELL ABOVE BOOK MAX!!!!!!

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/photo2-38.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo2-38.jpg.html)

[LongRange]

like i said i shot all 50pcs of this brass after turning the necks today and can say that turning the necks did make me a better shooter...just kidding....but i can say that it did help with seating depth issues(BIG TIME)and with extreme FPS spreads. ive shot H4350 in the past with no accuracy so to speak of but have had great results with IMR4350 but while it was accurate it was a little slow at 2740FPS average and no matter what charge,primer,trim length,seating depth ECT it didnt help. with H4350 i was getting wild ES's in the 45FPS range so i quickly put that on the back burner. today i went back to the H4350 just to see what would happen as we all know its the"GO TO"powder.this group was shot today with the 50pcs of abused brass after neck turning....the 2854 shot was the one gulled neck i had while turning and not sure if i pulled that shot or not but it broke clean and follow through felt clean but it was 5FPS faster so you be the judge....

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff515/LTT-/Mobile%20Uploads/photo1-38.jpg (http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/LTT-/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo1-38.jpg.html)

[BillPa]

Not to change the the subject, but scroll up and look what this pic turned into on post #46..:p
http://i62.tinypic.com/2rp411f.jpg

Me thinks either Tinypic is messed up or some'm been hacked!

Bill

[LongRange]

Not to change the the subject, but scroll up and look what this pic turned into on post #46..:p
http://i62.tinypic.com/2rp411f.jpg

Me thinks either Tinypic is messed up or some'm been hacked!

Bill

i did notice but thought it was only me that could see it as no one else said anything LOL.

[BillPa]

i did notice but thought it was only me that could see it as no one else said anything LOL.

I was busy installing a Linux OS on a laptop and while it was loading I took a quick look then saw that, a page from a '30s Chicom newspaper!:p. I went to the Tinypic site, my pic was there and the link was the same address so I deleted it then uploaded it again.

Strange.

[sixonetonoffun]

This thread has "article" potential written all over it. Great info and examples on why, when and how to get into neck turning.

[foxx]

This thread has "article" potential written all over it. Great info and examples on why, when and how to get into neck turning.

+1 Exactly.

[LongRange]

I was busy installing a Linux OS on a laptop and while it was loading I took a quick look then saw that, a page from a '30s Chicom newspaper!:p. I went to the Tinypic site, my pic was there and the link was the same address so I deleted it then uploaded it again.

Strange.

i thought you had connections in north Korea LMAO!!


This thread has "article" potential written all over it. Great info and examples on why, when and how to get into neck turning.

in hind site i should of posted pics in the front of the thread like UpSlideDown did in his build thread.

[LongRange]

well i went out and shot at 550yds and 930yds this morning...while loading this morning i found 11 more pieces of brass that are retired after being shot today...one was the 5th that have been loaded hot..the other 10 are the pieces that have been loaded hot but in .5 grain increments less than the hottest 5. yesterday 5 of the failed 10 from this morning were loaded with 43g of hybrid 100V which produced high pressures in my riffle...2930 to 2955FPS...and the other 5 were loaded with 43g of H4350 which also produced high pressures...2928 to 2940FPS...both of these loads were SLIGHTLY compressed in my riffle as i have short free bore.

we have talked about various things that effect point of impact in this thread and i think we all agree that weather and shooter are the two BIGGEST factors and ammo second. i loaded up 44 rounds this morning...would of been 45 but i didnt shoot the piece with the gulled neck...now i did change several things and shouldnt have and will list them in order of importance..IMO..if you guys think different then please post your opinions.

#1 bumped charge up to 41.6g from 41.5g yesterday...reason...want 2850FPS
#2 didnt bump necks back...several were VERY tight and SEVERAL were loose to snug
#3 used a lee collet die to neck size instead of bushing die used yesterday..reason..because i got it yesterday afternoon and like a kid at christmas couldnt wait to try it out...and now wondering why i havent used one before now..LOVE THIS DIE!!
#4 brass needed to be annealed...i could feel while seating some were tighter that others but see reason #2..is that part of it? i doubt it as every neck measured .290 after sizing.
#5 necks were not trimmed...shortest COAL was 2.025 longest was 2.027..does it make a difference? im not sure but i would say it does at ELR as it would release the bullet at a slightly higher pressure.
#6 brass was not tumbled...does it make a difference? im not sure but brass was shinny inside and out yesterday.
#7 this should be listed higher but you decide...loading Bipod/shoulder load...i can change my FPS by as much as 20FPS by using a loose shoulder push to a firm shoulder push...if you think it dont matter try it some time...let your butt pad rest loosely into your shoulder and fire a round through your crony...then push the butt pad firmly into your shoulder and fire a round through your crony and ill bet $20 bucks shot 2 is faster.

now the two BIGGEST factors from yesterday to today are...
#1 shooter drank SEVERAL millers last night..reason...well because i can LOL!!
#2 weather at start of fire...yesterday was sunny and warm..aprox 54deg and no wind..today was colder and over cast and slight changing breeze at start of shooting but cleared up and temp was the same as yesterday at last 5 rounds fired at 930yds.

like i said this rabbit hole is deep so just how far you want to go down is up to you. this is why most bench rest shooters full length resize,anneal,trim,tumble,weigh,measure ECT to take out ALL the variables possible...and at this point im thinking i might start full length resizing,annealing and tumbling every time just to take these 3 things out of the equation.