93r17GV....accuracy, grapes went sour

[gwtx]

Got my new rifle(93R17GV), broke it down, cleaned it, took scope bases(factory)off, three of the four screws were loose, one was so tight I thought it was going to strip or break off, re-mounted using lok-tite. The socket head screws are something I've seen before, or, they are just junk from china. I have all sorts of hex wrenches, metric and sae, even whitworth, and none will fit snugly in some of the screw heads. They are not all that way. I mounted scope (alignment was no problem) , peeked through the bore at my target and adjusted scope. First shot was 1" low, 1" right, got lucky, old eyes usually don't see that good. Shot a few rounds to get close to bullseye. Then the first three, 3 shot groups were just under 1" c to c. Got lucky again. Each group was with a different brand/type ammo. Cleaned the bore with Hoppes9 solvent. Back to the bench, groups went to around 2". Thought it needed to be "re-seasoned", so I shot 5, and let cool. Shot 5 and let cool. Still no joy. Gave the bore a J&B job.

Still the same results after quite a few rounds. Checked action screws, they were not tight, I had torqued them to 18" when I re assembled. They actually had not loosened, the stock had compressed,,,with only 18 inch lbs torque on the front, and a little less on the rear. This is the "GV" model with the plain beechwood(or whatever) stock. This wood is like styrofoam. I have re-tightened the action screws several times, they just keep compressing the wood more. I made a new piece of bottom metal a little longer that eliminated the "wood screw". No change. While I had the stock off the action, I found the rear mount (the thing the screw goes into) was loose. Tightened and applied lok-tite.

Also had numerous FTF's with different brand/type ammo. The safety took a gorilla to move from safe to fire, adjusted the spring(bent it a bit) and applied a little moly,,, better. From the git go the magazine was out of alignment and would have to be twisted to get it seated,,removed the burr from the cutout in the receiver that was the mag was catching on. I know this is not an expensive rifle, but it IS a SAVAGE. I don't mind tweaking and touching up a few small things, but the quality control guy must have been on smoke break when this one went through. I have two other fairly recent rifles made by savage (and one is an AXIS) , and no problems with them, with a little tweaking, they both shoot sub moa . The "GV" stock is not worth trying to pillar & bed. There is not much material to work with. I read "NH Shooter's" great write up on the laminated stock, and I guess I may have to do something like that. There goes my "bargain rifle" :( . I've been over the accuracy check routine several times: Scope tracked perfect while zeroing, bases/rings screws tight, all other threaded items tightened, different brand/type ammo, etc., etc. ANY IDEAS APPRECIATED. Long post,but I probably still left out something Thanks,,,,,,,Gary

[gwtx]

For what it's worth, I did a "homemade" pillar job, and it helped a lot, but it's been windy around here,and I haven't had a chance to do some real testing at 100yds.

[teebirdhyzer]

I have this same rifle I purchased a few years ago. My wood also compresses when tightened. I use about 16lbs of tourque. If your's doesn't shoot like you think it should, I would send it back to Savage and have them work it over. Many folks have had good success with this route.

[gwtx]

Thanks TBIRD, With the modifications I've done, I don't think Savage would do anything for me. I don't know that for certain, and I may talk to them about it. Right now, I'm waiting for a calm day to shoot it. It doesn't take much breeze at all to really push the little pills off course. What kind of groups do you get with your rifle? Do you shoot 100 yds? , a lot of rimfire folks shoot 50 yds. Maybe I'm expecting too much from rimfire ammo? At any rate, the action screws pull down rock solid now, and I've modded the trigger to 1 1/2 LBs pull, and a clean break. It is shooting a good steady group elevation wise, but the gusty wind sometimes blows one round off 2" or so, and the rest of the group is stringing horizontally, which I think/hope is due to the wind. Ballistics program shows a 10 mph crosswind blows the round off over 3". It is normally pretty breezy around here most of the time, so it looks like this is gonna be a "fair weather" or night time rifle. I'll probably just stick to the 22-250 for serious varminting.
Thanks for the reply.

[Westcliffe01]

I have the 22 mag. Model 93BTVS with the thumbhole laminate stock and all stainless steel action and barrel.

Honestly it is the biggest piece of junk I ever got from Savage. I have "tuned" many a factory rifle, but this one beats them all. None of the magazines functioned at all. Barrel was not free floated. Terrible stock inletting and what the heck was Savage thinking with the 2 threaded adapters which define the "bedding" of the entire action ? The front threaded adapter has the thread bottom out in the tapped hole in the receiver, the bushing part does not even touch the receiver at all, apparently it was meant to be that way since the receiver does not have a flat milled into it to accept the base of the bushing ?

After fixing all the magazines so they were positively located, bedding the action, I could not get it to perform better than 3MOA at 75 yards. I used 30gr CCI and 40gr Hornady ammo, all of which has been well nigh impossible to obtain in the last 2 years. Any part you touch shows evidence of shoddy workmanship. The notch in the bolt to hold back the firing pin when cocked has too sharp an edge, so it snaps loudly when raising and lowering the bolt handle. Thats a really cool feature for a predator hunter trying to get within 75 yards... It would not be so loud if the pin did not have 0.020 to 0.030" of clearance in the guide in the receiver, but why do that right if you can screw u every individual detail ???

The amazing thing is that this is their most expensive rimfire rifle, and costs consistently more than an Axis centerfire rifle. Yet those are basically functional out the box other than the plastic stock. But their execution of the laminate stock and bedding concept is so poor, I doubt that the axis plastic stock is actually worse, more likely it is better... Michigan law requires me to use a rimfire at night on predators, otherwise I would have returned the POS the day I fired it for the first time. But in future, there will not be any more Savage rimfires in my life unless they dramatically clean up their act. Judging by what happened with the Bmag, I seriously doubt that is ever going to happen.

[gwtx]

@westcliffe01:
Man, sorry to hear that. I don't have all the problems worked out on my rifle, but it's getting better. My thoughts when I bought mine was: " I don't know if I will like this .17 cal stuff or not" so I bought cheap.($206+$25FFL). I got cheap. I expected cheap AND ACCURATE because of all the "incredible" reviews. Well, "you pays you money, and takes you chances" someone said. I think I'll get my rifles to be useable, at least when the wind's not blowing, but I was/am still a little disappointed in "savage". I have an Axis that shot under 1" with factory ammo "out of the box"(after cleaning). I have a RugerAmeriacan that did the same, also a Remington 783, same, etc,etc,

[gwtx]

Wind just won't quit, but i put up a flag and shot some during the very slight lulls. I'm satisfied the rifle will shoot, if there is very little wind. Don't know if the pic is gonna show, if not, I'll try again. Been a while since I tried to post a pic, always have problems with it. Ahh, the golden years!
Pic made it up, forgot to mention, the group was shot at 100yds. I guess if you shoot enough, 3 of em are bound to land close together sooner or later :)


http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p583/gwtx/Savage%2093R17GV/098f20e7-e905-4e47-b666-9c2f188693b6.jpg (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/gwtx/media/Savage%2093R17GV/098f20e7-e905-4e47-b666-9c2f188693b6.jpg.html)

[Westcliffe01]

There was an old thread on rimfire central about dissassembly of the model 93 bolt and polishing of the cam faces.

Thread link here http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78552

Photo of polished bolt parts from that thread
http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad43/DiRTYDOG223/98aeec36.jpg

I started working on my bolt this evening to make the notch for the cocking pin shallower to quiet it down some. Right now, I need to re-evaluate the accuracy since I replaced the one (too short) action screw and hopefully I can make the operation more stealthy.

[gwtx]

Co-incidentally , I was looking at the same old thread a couple days ago, and yesterday did much of the same thing. Mine was pretty nice from the factory. I cleaned up all the rough edges etc., and the end of the firing pin. It had an uneven surface that looked like it might limit the travel and therefore make the "hit" lighter. It still has about 40% misfires on the winchester vmax. Probably had 2or 3 out of over 100 rounds of the hornady. Some of the winchesters were hitting high 2600's on the chrony, and the bolt was slightly harder to lift. No wonder they are splitting cases in some guns. I put some JB bore shine(red) on a piece of cloth, and used a small flat screw driver blade to polish the "grooves" where the firing pin and ejectors fit. Polished the rest with 0000 steel wool. It's pretty slick now. Good luck, keep us posted on your progress. Gary

[gwtx]

Wind just won't quit, but i put up a flag and shot some during the very slight lulls. I'm satisfied the rifle will shoot, if there is very little wind. Don't know if the pic is gonna show, if not, I'll try again. Been a while since I tried to post a pic, always have problems with it. Ahh, the golden years!
Pic made it up, forgot to mention, the group was shot at 100yds. I guess if you shoot enough, 3 of em are bound to land close together sooner or later :)


http://i1157.photobucket.com/albums/p583/gwtx/Savage%2093R17GV/098f20e7-e905-4e47-b666-9c2f188693b6.jpg (http://s1157.photobucket.com/user/gwtx/media/Savage%2093R17GV/098f20e7-e905-4e47-b666-9c2f188693b6.jpg.html)
Well, I guess it was a fluke, I haven't shot a group since that one shot didn't fly off 1 1/2" or so. I removed scope, checked tightness on screws, re'torqued, tried different (proven) scope, and about out of ideas. Thought maybe after shooting 300+ rounds, the barrel should be "settled in" if it's ever gonna be. I have been able to fix all of the little glitches it came with(except misfires on winchester ammo), and I really like the rifle, but I can't use it for what I bought it for if it won't shoot consistent. I haven't talked to savage c.s. yet, but I doubt that they will do anything due to the mods: pillars, and modded trigger. May give'em a call to see what they say.
ANY IDEAS greatly appreciated. Gary

[gwtx]

I gave up and called Savage. The rep was very understanding. They sent me a ups return label, and I shipped it off this morning. I was pleasantly surprised as I told him all the things I had done to the rifle including the pillar installation. Couldn't ask for a better experience, just hope they can do something with it. Will post when I have results.

[gwtx]

I gave up and called Savage. The rep was very understanding. They sent me a ups return label, and I shipped it off this morning. I was pleasantly surprised as I told him all the things I had done to the rifle including the pillar installation. Couldn't ask for a better experience, just hope they can do something with it. Will post when I have results.
They couldn't find anything wrong with the rifle. They said they shot a sub moa group. After I got it back and re-mounted the scope, it shot just like it did before. Must be me, but I put my Stevens 200 22-250 on the rest and shoot a 1/2" group. Go figure. I'll work with it later, but for now I found a beautiful 'RemLin' XT-17 VSL that I couldn't resist,,,,,it shoots 1/2" groups. I still think there is a problem with the stock/receiver connection. May try a Boyds stock later. Funds are running low.
Merry Christmas to all. Good shootin to ya. Gary