Scope comparison: Leupold versus Mueller

[n4ue]

Ok, give me a minute to get my flame suit on...... Ok, ready.......

I recently spent some range time with my Axis 6.5 TCU. It was a brand new SS 223 and I replaced the Savage bbl with a McGowan SS tube. It's a great combo with almost no recoil and shoots an 85 gr HP at 2800 fps. I haven't even worked up a load yet, just using up the ammo I loaded long ago for my TC 14" silhouette gun.

I put a new Leupold VX-1 3-9X40mm (silver) scope on it, using silver Weaver Quad locks. I was happy but not thrilled with the target pictures at 100 yds.
Today, I took another, similar rifle to our private range and had a couple of shooting buddies do an A/B test of the optical qualities only, no shooting. I put some different colored/size targets at the 100 yd position.
Rifle #2 has a Mueller 4.5-14X40mm AO (silver) scope with the same Weaver rings.
I adjusted the Mueller down to 9X and let the guys look through them.
The Mueller won hands down. When I cranked the Mueller up to 14X, it really wowed them.

This is not my first Leupold. Of course, being the VX-1, it IS at the bottom of the ladder. I also have a few Muellers and have been extremely pleased with them.
I vowed long ago to never buy another scope without an AO, and I should have known better.

The Mueller is $100 less, and I just ordered another to replace the VX-1. Will it 'hold up' like the Leupold? Don't know, don't care. It's just a plinking gun and doesn't get that much use.

FWIW

ron

[xsskeet]

No flames from me... I own two of the Mueller's. Both are the 3X10-44 Sport Dot models.

One is on a 7-08 Encore and the other is on the brides Browning 7-08.

I think what it comes down to is "what are you using it for". Most of our hunting opportunities here in SC present shots 300 yards or less. I would say 90% of our deer killed have been less than 150 yards. Do you need a $500 - $1000 scope for that? I don't think so...

What I'm looking for is clarity, and repeatability. Along with a good Warranty... Yep.. some times they do go south.

I own Burris, Weaver, Nikon and Mueller's. They all have their plus and minus aspects.

Would I buy another Mueller? Sure would.

Just an old guys .02 on the subject. :rolleyes:

[n4ue]

xsskeet, thank you for the reply. Being here in Florida, we have no Prairie Dogs, Ground Hogs. The only varnints we have, are the kind you make boots out of. ha ha

I've more or less given up hunting, instead, I like to target shoot and experiment with wildcat calibers and load development.

There was nothing really 'wrong' with the Leupold. I think it's lack of an AO is what bothered me most. One thing I noticed on the bottom of the Lupy....
It states: Designed, Manufactured, and Assembled in the USA". Hmmmm.

Of Redfield's 2 low end scopes, the Revenge is clearly marked "Made in China". The Revolution has the same type of wording as the Lupy. I was told that both of the Redfield scopes glass come from the same source. If the parts are made overseas, imported to the USA, and assembled here, it's legal to say :
"Manufactured in the USA", especially if you add one part made here.
How do I know? I was an Engineer for IBM/Lexmark and our high end color laser printers were indeed made in Japan. We added our controller card, ran them through an assembly line. Presto. Manufactured in the USA.

If you see my other post in this section, Zeiss binoculars (low end Terra ED) is now made in China.
Do I care? Heck NO! I just wish some companies would just not try to fool the consumer with 'wordmanship'.

ron

[justinp61]

I have a Mueller 4.5-14 APT that was on my Savage BTVLSS .22. I replaced it with a Konus Pro 6.5-25, the Mueller is a much clearer scope. I also have a Leupold VXIII 6.5-20 with a Varmint Hunters reticle on a Savage bull barrel 22-250. At long range it is a clearer than the Mueller. That being said it's not fair to the Mueller to compare it to a scope that costs about 4X what it did. Kinda like comparing a Yugo to a Cadillac. I have a new Model 16 in 260 Remington coming and will most likely replace the Nikon with a Mueller. IMO Muellers are the vest scopes for the money out there.

[mikein]

I think I've probably got one (or two!) of every brand name scope ever made in the last 25 years. And I agree with the other posters on this subject: buy the best scope you can afford to do the job you're doing! A 2K$ Night Force is a true work of the scope maker's art, but do I need it to shoot my Central Texas deer at 150 yards? No. And I can take the $1700 I save by buying a Mueller, or low end Nikon or Leupold and buy another rifle! If I ever get the opportunity to do a "hunt of a lifetime," under the most challenging conditions imaginable, I'd pay the bucks to make sure I had the best glass for the conditions I'd be facing. Mueller makes good, affordable optics, and I'll continue to buy them until something with the same price point and quality comes along.

[Ibex]

No flame here either. Mueller has become my scope brand of choice. As I have read numerous times and agree whole heartedly, they are superior in quality for their price point. I currently have three rifles set up as similar as possible for the various games that I play, trying to keep the controls and feel as similar as I can. A bull barreled MKII, an Axis .223 7 a M11 .260 rem. All with pillared and bedded Boyd's Tacticool stocks, all with worked triggers groups, all with 20 MOA bases and all with Muellers on top. I have a couple minor gripes; the APT on the MKII has almost inaudible elevation clicks (but my dope is based on the marks not the # of clicks anyway) & a side parallax adjustment on the 8.5 - 25 would be nice, but I noticed that the new model 8-32 does have the side focus, so that concern was addressed. They are not indestructible... I pulled a dumb a$$ move, I propped the .260 on top of my gun vise instead of in it... I bumped the bench and watched it fall about 3' in slow motion directly on the corner of the ocular lense. It bounced across the room and bent the tube completely down onto the wrist of the stock. Man tears were shed. I will definitely be asking Santa for a Mueller to replace that one!

[Berserker]

xsskeet, thank you for the reply. Being here in Florida, we have no Prairie Dogs, Ground Hogs. The only varnints we have, are the kind you make boots out of. ha ha

I've more or less given up hunting, instead, I like to target shoot and experiment with wildcat calibers and load development.

There was nothing really 'wrong' with the Leupold. I think it's lack of an AO is what bothered me most. One thing I noticed on the bottom of the Lupy....
It states: Designed, Manufactured, and Assembled in the USA". Hmmmm.

Of Redfield's 2 low end scopes, the Revenge is clearly marked "Made in China". The Revolution has the same type of wording as the Lupy. I was told that both of the Redfield scopes glass come from the same source. If the parts are made overseas, imported to the USA, and assembled here, it's legal to say :
"Manufactured in the USA", especially if you add one part made here.
How do I know? I was an Engineer for IBM/Lexmark and our high end color laser printers were indeed made in Japan. We added our controller card, ran them through an assembly line. Presto. Manufactured in the USA.

If you see my other post in this section, Zeiss binoculars (low end Terra ED) is now made in China.
Do I care? Heck NO! I just wish some companies would just not try to fool the consumer with 'wordmanship'.

ron
I still think it is better to be manufactured in USA, then made in China. I am someone who does care where things are made. I live and work in the US.

[J.Baker]

As someone who's owned over a half-dozen different Mueller's over the years I can tell you first hand that they're no Leupold.

Are they nice scopes for the money? Yes.
Will most guys be perfectly happy with them? Probably
Will they last as long as a Leupold? Not based on my experience

Of the 8 Muellers I had, two had the reticle lens come free and rotate inside the scope (reticle cant), and three had seals fail that resulted in internal fogging. All five issues occured before any of them were two years old. Five out of eight is a 62.5% failure rate - not a rate I find acceptable or can recommend. Only way I'd ever recommend a Mueller is as a short term solution so you can still shoot while you save up for the next year or so to get the higher end scope you really want.

[yobuck]

I bought a 25 yr old vx3 3.5x10 two years ago from a friend. Decided i wanted a different reticle so sent it back to leupold.
They notified me there was a problem they couldnt fix due to age of scope and parts availibilty. So they sent me
a new scope free. I did pay for the upgrade for a reticle change from the standard duplex. I didnt even realize there
was a problem with the old scope. There might be clearer scopes on the market today and there certainly are other good ones.
But ill take a used Leupold at an affordable price over a new inexpensive one every time. Ive also fairly recently bought 2 new Redfields.
One is a revulution i put on a savage 22 mag. The other a battlezone i put on a ruger hawkeye 223. both are simply banging around in the jeep guns.
Too early to comment how good they are other than they appear to be nice scopes. But its comforting to know who backs them up.

[wbm]

As someone who's owned over a half-dozen different Mueller's over the years I can tell you first hand that they're no Leupold.

+1.

[justinp61]

I bought a new VX3 to put on my Model 16 at $550 it should be a better scope than my $150 Mueller. I'll be honest, I don't think it's any clearer than the Mueller I have. Will the Mueller hold up to the recoil? I don't know, but for the money they are good scopes. Kinda like comparing MKIIs to Anschutz.