223 AI help

[Hammer500]

Hi all I'm new to this site and have a few Savage wildcats (223 AI, 6mm TCU and 6BR). My 223AI is a Savage model 11 with a factory barrel. I had a good load working with 26.6 gr of 748 in federal brass with CCI primer and 60 gr Nosler Ballistic tips when it was just a 223. I had it reamed out and I shot the rest of that load I had worked up while fire forming and they shot well, 3 shots touching at 300 yards. After fire forming I can't get anything to shoot accurate ( less than 1" 3 shot group) at 100 yards. I have tried many different loads of 748 with the 60gr Noslers and then switched to H335, H322 and messed with seating depths and then I moved to 52 Sierra Matchkings and still couldn't get it to shoot. I checked the action screws and gave it a good cleaning with wipe out and no difference. I'm at a lose and frustrated. I have noticed that I'm showing signs of pressure at book max loads for a 223. Any suggestions?

[bootsmcguire]

Hmmm my first thought would be move to a slightly slower powder to take advantage of the slightly larger case capacity. I don't have my burn rate chart handy and I don't use any of the powders you mention, but my first instinct would be to go up to maybe Varget, h4895, or RL15 and go back to the Nosler 60's since they were working well before and during your fire-forming. I have had great luck with RL15 in the 223 based cases in the past.

[Hammer500]

I don't have any Varget or RL-15 but I do have H4895.

[bootsmcguire]

Might be something to try. I am playing from memory here so check a burn chart and consult a couple of data sources and check me, but IIRC that is a listed powder for the 223 and may just be what your barrel needs. I always find a lil slower seems to help when issues like this arise.

[Hammer500]

Ok I will look into it. Thanks for the info.

[bootsmcguire]

I guess I should have asked before, have you re-tried the 26.6gr of 748 with the Nosler 60 in the fireformed brass?

[Hammer500]

Yeah that's what I started with.

[dcloco]

Interesting. Frustrating too!

H4895 is my GO TO powder in the 223 sized cases. AI's love this powder. Good/great speed...and the accuracy is superb.

Have you worked up a new load with 748 yet?

[Hammer500]

I couldn't get any accuracy with the 748 and the Noslers. Nothing better than an 1" at 100 yards, which I find unacceptable for a small bore. It's been 2 weeks since I worked at it. I shot a bench rest competition on the weekend and shot my friends Sako 222 and shot a perfect score at 100 which made me happy but more frustrated with AI. I will start putting together some loads with H4895 and keep you posted.

[cranebird]

Your leftover .223 loads are basically being reduced from having to fire form the case to the newer larger capacity case form. You might find that same pet load results by running a slightly lower charge with the new formed case which doesn't make sense seeing the case capacity is larger, You would think it would take more powder to get the same results but I'm finding that not to be the case. If you seen my previous 748/.223AI thread,I had a difficult time with the 748 powder. Try a magnum primer and an overall length set for the magazine feed length and back down the powder and see if it helps.

[cranebird]

Interesting. Frustrating too!

H4895 is my GO TO powder in the 223 sized cases. AI's love this powder. Good/great speed...and the accuracy is superb.

Have you worked up a new load with 748 yet?

I found a can of H4895 today while looking for trap dye.:cool:

[cranebird]

I've been messing around with the 748 and 60, 63 gr bullet with a magnum primer. I'm not finding anything but am having fun flattening primers but I am a 1:12 twist, thinking it should still shoot those bullets well. If you have H4895 and a 53 gr V Max, look towards 27.0 gr of powder. Again primers are flattening but seem to be very accurate. I was running 26.2 gr of H4895 with a 60 gr bullet but then when conducting a larger shot group testing, I pierced a primer...The AI is more sensitive than the regular .223.Thinking the trade off is worth it though. Who knew it was going to be so much fun ?

[dcloco]

1:12 with 60 & 63 gr bullets? Doubt you will ever have any luck with that twist. Some 55's don't stabilize in a 1:12 twist.

Piercing primers - WHICH primer were you using? Have you looked at your firing with under magnification?

AI more sensitive than a regular 223? HUH?? No different than any other cartridge.

[cranebird]

1:12 with 60 & 63 gr bullets? Doubt you will ever have any luck with that twist. Some 55's don't stabilize in a 1:12 twist.

Piercing primers - WHICH primer were you using? Have you looked at your firing with under magnification?

AI more sensitive than a regular 223? HUH?? No different than any other cartridge. CCI400 , rem 6 1/2 & Rem 7 1/2 BR primer...Hence my theory of thinking the AI is more sensitive since I've never pierced a primer with the standard .223. The firing pin looks fine. Going to go with a fluted PT&G bolt and their bolt head before long. The only problem is if it is the firing pin, I'll still have the same one.

[dcloco]

CCI400 , rem 6 1/2 & Rem 7 1/2 BR primer...Hence my theory of thinking the AI is more sensitive since I've never pierced a primer with the standard .223. The firing pin looks fine. Going to go with a fluted PT&G bolt and their bolt head before long. The only problem is if it is the firing pin, I'll still have the same one.


STOP using Remington 6 1/2 primers in HIGH PRESSURE calibers!!

"Warning: •Remington does not recommend this primer for use in the 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 223 Remington, 204 Ruger, 17 Remington Fireball. Use the 7-1/2 Small Rifle Bench Rest primer in these cartridges."

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1601138078/remington-small-rifle-primers-6-1-2

[n4ue]

Hi all I'm new to this site and have a few Savage wildcats (223 AI, 6mm TCU and 6BR). My 223AI is a Savage model 11 with a factory barrel. I had a good load working with 26.6 gr of 748 in federal brass with CCI primer and 60 gr Nosler Ballistic tips when it was just a 223. I had it reamed out and I shot the rest of that load I had worked up while fire forming and they shot well, 3 shots touching at 300 yards. After fire forming I can't get anything to shoot accurate ( less than 1" 3 shot group) at 100 yards. I have tried many different loads of 748 with the 60gr Noslers and then switched to H335, H322 and messed with seating depths and then I moved to 52 Sierra Matchkings and still couldn't get it to shoot. I checked the action screws and gave it a good cleaning with wipe out and no difference. I'm at a lose and frustrated. I have noticed that I'm showing signs of pressure at book max loads for a 223. Any suggestions?

Go to 6mmbr.com and look at the 223 section. They have loads for the AI. My Axis AI (1:9) is wonderful. BTW, did you do a ctg OAL measurement? Maybe the throat is much deeper now, Just a thought.
Most of my wildcats are loaded single shot style using the Poly Sled. I don't worry about magazine lenght....
ron

[Hammer500]

I have not but I mean to. I was going to use the method on VarmintAls website.

[cheezie]

Hammer500,
When troubleshooting, it always helps to go back to a known point every now and then. Please retry the original 26.6 gr of 748 and 60 gr Nosler BT's in a standard 223 case to see if shots still touch at 300 yds. You may find something else changed.

[chukarmandoo]

Go to 6mmbr.com and look at the 223 section. They have loads for the AI. My Axis AI (1:9) is wonderful. BTW, did you do a ctg OAL measurement? Maybe the throat is much deeper now, Just a thought.
Most of my wildcats are loaded single shot style using the Poly Sled. I don't worry about magazine lenght....
ron

Not to hi-jack this thread, but thanks for the link. I needed the info for the straight 223 in a AR platform and got some good info. Hope the 223AI info helps others!