243 vs ?? for wife's hunting rifle?

[Mach2]

250 savage is not a long action cartridge. A 22-250 necked up to 25 is far from a long action cartridge. Even with the long 115s there is still plenty of room in a short action magazine.

Hey Stomp,
If the 30-06 is the parent case for the 250 Sav how is the Sav a short action? Is there that much neck removed from the 30-06 to create the 250 Sav? I had earlier considered the 250 Sav in my SA Stevens but dropped the idea when I saw the 30-06 was the parent.

Also what would you compare the 250 Sav's recoil to? Is it closer to the .243 or .260? I feel like if I'm going to utilize a short action it should have low recoil otherwise I'd just grab one of my long actions with bigger cartridges. Also a SA weighs less so it has less to counter recoil.

[stomp442]

The 250 savage is the parent case of the 22-250 so it has the same overall dimensions of the 22-250 just necked up to a bigger bore. About the only thing it has in common with the 06 is that it shares the same bolt head. Cases can be made from any .308 offspring or by necking up 22-250 or necking down 300 savage brass.

The 250s recoil is really a class of its own. Its less than the 243 but only barely more than a 22-250. Really mild to say the least. My wife and 11 year old nephew love shooting them and why i own three rifles chambered in 250.

[bootsmcguire]

Quite right. I just neck up 22-250 when actual 250 cases are unavailable for my 250-AI.

For recoil comparison I am shooting a SA 250-AI with a 16.5" varmint barrel in a Tupperware stock currently, and I have a LA 243-AI in a duramaxx that is a 26" Varmint barrel, and even with all the extra weight of the LA, Duramaxx stock, and 9.5 more inches of barrel the 243-AI still has noticeably more recoil.

[bc160]

Well I will throw my opinion in the ring. First I just went through a similar build for my father whom has some shoulder issues and very recoil sensitive. I, like you, love the 243 and have several. However, we settled on a 6.5 CM. It is an incredibly round. Recoil is next to nothing and definitely not anymore than the 243. I know some will not agree but I would be completely confident out to 500 or so yards with the CM on mule deer which is a couple hundred yards more than I trusted my 243's. My father's longest shot at a mule deer was just shy of 400 yards and the rifle preformed flawlessly.

[D.ID]

I hope someone knows something I do not.
If so please tell, I have no experience whatsoever with the 250 savage but........ as far as I can tell (google) : It shoots the same weight bullet as a fast twist 243 but shoots it slower and the .25 caliber bullets have significantly less B.C. for the same weight making them loose speed and loose efficiency in the wind faster, not to mention very limited bullet selection.............How would this benefit a shooter engaging dear at 3-400 yards with an eye toward elk out west someday?
I really do not understand the recommendation.
.
.
.P.S.....+1 on the creedmoor.

[Mach2]

6.5mm creedmoor is very similar to a 260.
243 is 6mm. Less boom than 260
No one has recommended the 6mm yet I have talked with shooters who prefer the 6mm far better than the .243
BTW 6mm is .244

[bootsmcguire]

Well I was suggesting the 250-AI which adds a fair bit of capacity to let the 250 case catch up to the 243 in volume, and the 250 is just more efficient. The 250-AI also has less felt recoil than the 243 by a fair bit IMHO (as stated above) which seems to be what the OP is really looking for.

Also comparing BC on a 400yd or less hunting gun when the BC's are not horribly far apart and targets are deer sized or better is kind of splitting hairs don't you think? Now step on out past 600 and the differences start to get more important.

As to bullet selection, how many choices do you need? Almost every maker makes at least 1 25cal bullet in each weight class. I mean Nosler, Hornady, Seirra, and Berger all offer high quality 25cal choices for varmints up through big game.

[bootsmcguire]

6.5mm creedmoor is very similar to a 260.
243 is 6mm. Less boom than 260
No one has recommended the 6mm yet I have talked with shooters who prefer the 6mm far better than the .243
BTW 6mm is .244

By 6mm is it safe to guess that you mean the "6mm Remington"?

Unless you AI the 6-Rem it just doesn't have enough over the 243 to justify it, and you are stepping up powder capacity over the 243 if you do go AI and thus adding recoil, plus 6-Rem brass can be tougher to find and if you seat longer bullets like 115 Bergers it may not fit in the mag of the SA the OP is using.

Literally 6.0mm = .236". In the firearms world however we use .243" as the 6mm diameter projectile size. Now the 6-Rem was also called the .244. Remington switched the name to try and boost sales when it revamped its rifles with the faster 1-10" twist over the 1-12" they were first released with.

[sixonetonoffun]

Hmn thanks Boots now I think I need a 250 sav ai. But seriously it has a lot of appeal. The slight increase in capacity along with "modern" powders & bullets. Should put to bed any misgivings from the past about its efficacy and efficiency taking deer sized game.

I would argue the 6.5's have a slight edge with bullet selection and over the counter ammo can be a plus.

[stomp442]

Well i wont claim to know more but i do know what i have experienced. You are correct in that the 243 has better ballistics due to better bc bullets but at the ranges we are talking about there really is not a whole heck of a lot of difference and i can guarantee the animals will never know the difference. The OP stated that he was looking for a caliber with mild recoil with similar performance of the 243 and that describes the 250 to the T. I know from experience that the 250 savage and the 115 berger can tackle deer past 600 yards easily and i wouldn't hesitate to use it on elk to 400 yards either i know it works at 200 quite well. I have never shot a 115gr bullet out of my 243 as i dont have the twist for it but here are the numbers i am getting with my 250s in deer weight bullets in my 24" barrel and the powder used. 85gr Nosler at 3300 fps using 34gr of IMR 4064. 100gr Sierra at 3030fps with 36gr of IMR 4064 and the 115 Berger at 2840fps with 37gr of Reloader 17. The little 250 doesnt give up much to the 243 but what really makes it great is how little powder is used to get those kinds of numbers. The 250 is a very efficient cartridge and one of the reasons i really like it.

[Mach2]

After reading this thread I think the .243 stood up quite well to other suggestions. It wasn't developed until the mid fifties so there must have been a big hole in the mid size market up until 1955 for bullet selection that the .243 filled very nicely. There's no major drawbacks to the .243. Brass is obtainable, wide rang of weights and B.C. in the projectiles if you reload, low recoil, long range, suits small to large game etc.

One surprise I found shooting my 8mm Mauser which would break the skin and put blue bruises on my shoulder is that if you use a slip-on recoil pad like Limbsaver you can remove much of the recoil from even a brute like a Mauser rifle. A good recoil pad might enable a shooter to shoot a 260Rem that previously wouldn't shoot 260. Then the shooter could reach out to 800yds and get those skiddish critters like Pronghorns.
If you slipped on a Limbsaver over the recoil pad on a .Stevens 243 you'd hardly feel any recoil at all. You'd think you were shooting a 22LR. The Stevens model 200 doesn't have the best recoil pad at all. If you ordered a Boyds stock with a Pachmeyer recoil pad on it for your model 200 you'd really have a soft recoiling setup.

[BillPa]

Back story:


While in WY we built her a nice 243 that was extremely effective on game while being enjoyable to shoot off the bench. She dropped large mulies out to 300y without issue.

Looking at everything, the 243 really fits the bill

Thoughts?

This reminds me of young lad I was talking to who felt he "needed" a new rifle for deer. The conversation went like this.

What do you shoot now?
"A 30-30"
Have you killed any with it?
"Six"
How many shots"
"Six"
What happened when you shot them?
"They fell down"
So, why do you need a new rifle?????

Why not just stick with Warren Page's creation? She used it with success before and enjoyed shooting it so why change?

Bill

[windy]

people, people, people! have ye no memories? the 257 roberts is all the rifle she'll need fer any application! not fer small reason wuz it called "the most useful rifle in creation"! build her one on a mauser action and reap the benefits of ned roberts' other 25; t'ain't been improved upon in all the years since it was first created.
mind yer topknots!
windy

[mattri]

Good points all.

The 243 has not been ruled out by any means, again it is what everything else is being compared to.

The real fun of the build will be setting up the rifle just for her. We've learned a lot since that first 243- our first project- so I'm really looking forward to getting everything just the way she prefers. It gives us something to work on together and hopefully will be a rifle she can use for a long time.

At this point the biggest contender to the 243 looks like the 6.5 Grendel. Haven't done enough research to know for sure but it looks interesting.

Thanks again for all the great input.

[Mach2]

The Grendel is a long range bullet that can use A-max projectiles that shoot as far as the creedmoor 6.5 and the 260rem.
There used to be a Grendel dedicated forum online. Haven't been there in a couple of years though.
The military was making all kind of noise about replacing the .223 with the Grendel and then they dropped the idea which is a shame
because anything the military shoots seems to be cheaper since everybody starts making it.

[Ranger412]

A few years ago I was debating which caliber to start my son off for deer hunting. Because he is right-handed and left eye dominant, he shoots left-handed. Instead of buying him a left-handed rifle, I went ambidextrous and settled on a T/C Contender. Since the Contender is limited to lower pressure cartridges the .243 was not an option. In reading and comparing ballistics, felt recoil, etc., I found that the 6.8 Rem SPC was a suitable alternative. He harvested a nice white-tailed doe and a coyote last season with it. Both were one-shot-kills with excellent bullet performance. Probably not as long range worthy as the other suggestions, but take a look.

[basshawg42]

A 6.5 creedmore i have one and so does my sister. She has had shoulder surgery the year before she bought it. It's a savage lady hunter which is pretty light but still no recoil. She loves it.

[390fe]

My two cents worth - she's comfortable with the .243, and if you run out of reloads, factory loads can be found almost anywhere.

[mattri]

Good call. Hope to have the 338 out this afternoon if you're around.

[JCalhoun]

mattri,

The main advantage to the .243 right now is that you can get supplies for it and factory ammo is common. All the other cartridges are awesome including the Roberts but you have to scrounge cases from every nook & cranny or do without in some cases. The only Roberts brass on the market right now is Nosler around $75/50pcs.

The only other cartridge with similar results and less recoil that is fairly available is 6BR Norma.