How critical is the quality of the barrel nut?

[Savage6x284]

.... Are you implying that the barrel nut not being square can somehow, pull the barrel sideways in the receiver? But won't need the threads or bore then fixed, if you buy a squared nut??

If the customer needs a bunch of windage to get his scope on, either the scope mounts are drilled out of alignment, or the rings are off. If it was the barrel pulled out of alignment from the receiver, you now have a stretched receiver bore. A squared nut doesn't fix that.

I'm not Jim but even if the barrel nut face was .020" off of perpendicular to an axis drawn through the center of the nut it would not generate enough force to stretch or otherwise damage the heat treated receiver ring.
Such a deviation from perpendicular would however set up uneven tension and stresses which would affect the vibration pattern of the barrel with potential adverse consequences for accuracy.
Ideally you want everything making up the barrel/receiver ring/barrel nut interface to be as perfect as possible so as to set up even pressure 360* around the barrel. This will allow the barrel to vibrate (whip) at it's natural frequency without any influence from the nut.

[LongRange]

I'm not Jim but even if the barrel nut face was .020" off of perpendicular to an axis drawn through the center of the nut it would not generate enough force to stretch or otherwise damage the heat treatedo receiver ring.
Such a deviation from perpendicular would however set up uneven tension and stresses which would affect the vibration pattern of the barrel with potential adverse consequences for accuracy.
Ideally you want everything making up the barrel/receiver ring/barrel nut interface to be as perfect as possible so as to set up even pressure 360* around the barrel. This will allow the barrel to vibrate (whip) at it's natural frequency without any influence from the nut.

Very well put and exactly right...if barrel harmonics are interfered with in any way it will affect accuracy. When I re-barreled my 300 I put the factory brake back on and it would not shoot for crap so I put my jp enterprise recoil eliminator on and it shot bug holes....difference being the factory brake is 16.5oz the jp is just under 6oz

[darkker]

I have no problem with arguing the merits of uneven stresses. But I take exception to the notion that the barrel suddenly can't be square in the receiver, as was stated, save with a squared nut.

As to the original question of "importance". It stuns me still how a $250-$400 Savage with all it's poorly squared faces can shoot so good, and not require $500-1,000 to work right; So much so that the popularity increases to the point that the same Savage is now costing $600-800, suddenly we "Need" parts, just to be able to Mount our scopes....

As I said before, I have no issue with fashion, just call it what it is.

[foxx]

Darkker, are you sure you're not just nit-picking another's technical explanation / justification for trued parts that are designed to reduce the possibility of stress at the point of joining those parts?

If I am going to put the expense and the effort into replacing a barrel, I sure don't see why I would not want to go ahead and replace the lug and nut. It's obviously not absolutely necessary (the nut), but it isn't gonna hurt anything to do so, either. I'll be danged if I'm gonna be talked into or bullied into "admitting" I do anything just for aesthetics or fashion... I may be a gullible dumb-#%%, but I sure as heck am not vain! :)

[Savage6x284]

I have no problem with arguing the merits of uneven stresses. But I take exception to the notion that the barrel suddenly can't be square in the receiver, as was stated, save with a squared nut.

As to the original question of "importance". It stuns me still how a $250-$400 Savage with all it's poorly squared faces can shoot so good, and not require $500-1,000 to work right; So much so that the popularity increases to the point that the same Savage is now costing $600-800, suddenly we "Need" parts, just to be able to Mount our scopes....

As I said before, I have no issue with fashion, just call it what it is.

I don't believe that anyone claimed that Savage rifles were "poorly squared". On the contrary, Fred noted that the method by which the barrel nut is manufactured virtually ensures them to be square with the bore axis.
No other part of the Savage action was claimed to be consistently and egregiously out of perpendicularity (square if you will) either.
Jim may have used the phrasing he used to point out a worst case scenario. I do not know.

I bought my first new Savage 110 series rifle in the mid '80s or thereabout. I'm pretty certain that it cost me more than $250 for that bottom of the line 110. That, say $300, is the equivalent of $672 in 2014. It seems to me that the price for Savage rifles has pretty faithfully tracked the rate of inflation and have not been increased due to greater demand.

To your point about being "stunned" that inexpensive Savage rifles shoot so well given their prices I would say that the lowish prices are more likely due to the $6 IM stocks and a mechanical design which lends itself to easy and rapid production of parts using automated means and inexpensive, readily available raw materials. Steel tubing rather than an expensive and much more labor intensive forging for the bolt body as an example.
Another very large factor in keeping the costs low and the quality high is the incredible advances in machine tool technology within the last 30 years or so. IIRC Savage did a major retooling of their plant at least once during these 30 years. Old and worn machinery was replaced by new machinery which was both FAR more productive and capable of significantly greater precision.
A sound Nick Brewer design coupled with much faster, more accurate machine tools means higher productivity. The decision Savage made to stick with button rifling and hand straightened barrels means that the most significant source of the renowned Savage accuracy is still maintained.

A trued barrel nut is a rather insignificant expense when placed in the context of the overall cost of a custom build and may enter the realm of "why not"
If I were to build a nutted Savage there would be no question that a 10 minute stint on the lathe to true up the nut would be done as a matter of course.

Finally, a rather large part of the appeal of Savage rifles is that they are among the easiest rifles for a gunowner to modify. Most are justifiably proud of their efforts and the $40 spent on a trued nut is insignificant if for no other reason that knowing the job was "done right".

[northlander]

I am not at liberty to explain how our barrel nuts are made but we do run them on the CNC twice, before and after heat treat to a 40 Rockwell to assure that they are correct. Heat treating causes issues that require squaring.

Several Gunsmiths go into detail as to why their action services include "Trueing" the barrel nut. If this is not relevant, why are they doing it and why are they charging for it?

Jim Briggs
NSS