Weight of savage actions

[Savage6x284]

The biggest stress I have had is how the balance will come out. I started into this project once before and got nervous about the balance. What #2 contour are you mentioning?

The #2 I used on my Savage is the Rock Creek 5R 8 twist in 6mm. It was turned down to a #2 by Rock Creek from one of his 30" bull barrels. I had this barrel fitted nutless like a 700 but a nutted barrel would work too.
When building a LW rifle there is NOTHING more important than balance. Period! You were right in being concerned about balance and achieving it takes some thought and frankly it takes some money. Money spent primarily on a great quality LW stock like the McM EDGE I use and recommend. The Manners 24oz stock is likely also a good choice but 24oz is about the maximum weight you want for your stock. Anything heavier than that will require too much barrel to balance it out and subsequently you'd end up with a rifle which is either too heavy or poorly balanced.
Careful selection of scope and mounts is also required. Leupold consistently has the lightest scopes in their classes and Talley LW's are the lightest ringmounts you'll find. For my Savage LW I chose a set of the S&K projectionless mounts. These a bit heavier than the TLW's but they are bulletproof and they look fantastic. They are really light for an all steel mount but I don't recall what they come in at.
You're on the right track here Colt with your concerns and it sounds like you have a good grasp of what's important and what's just superfluous.
Quality stock, 24oz max.
Great barrel, not too skinny but not near to fat. A #2.
Full length tube for balance and ballistics.
LW, high quality sighting gear.
Swiss cheese and flutes are not desirable and are a place you can save money.

I'm excited to see your build come together. Keep me updated and do not hesitate to ask questions as they arise.
Building a LW Savage is ground rarely trodden around here and I'm happy to share my experiences in this arena.

[Savage6x284]

The Savage LWH Creedmoor weighs 5.5 lbs.
You can go to the Savage custom shop and they will build you a rifle superior to the Kimber.

If you say so.

[Savage6x284]

The Savage 11/111 LWH's are plenty light and have good balance. The 20" LWH barrel weights around 2 lbs. I have a Savage 11 LWH in 260. I replaced the 20" barrel with a 22" factory sporter barrel in 260. Increased barrel weight by 5 oz (2 lbs, 5 oz). Picked up a Sportsman Guide 23" Savage pre-fit SS #2 contour barrel in 280 AI (sold out) that only weighed 2 lbs. Put it on a Savage 111 LWH. Both rifles are plenty accurate with hand loads for hunting (0.5-0.75"@100 yd). My next project is to switch out the 22" 260 barrel and try a 22" factory sporter barrel in 7mm08. Seems to be a wider selection of good 7mm bullets (120, 140, 150, 154 and 160gr) to play with for both rifles when compared to the various 6.5mm caliber hunting rifles I've played with in the past. Based on my attempts over the past 10 years, buying a Savage LWH is cheaper, easier and faster than trying to build a Savage LW rifle from scratch if a light, compact, easy handling rifle is your objective. My Savage LWH's also cost less than a Kimber and are more accurate than the Remington Model 7's in 260 and 308 that I sold and replaced with the Savage LWH.

Good info here. Thanks for posting it.

Melvin Forbes, the originator of light done right, still lives (must be in his mid '80s by now) in the mountains of West Virginia. His ULA rifles broke all the rules but have proven to be the template and the yardstick by which all great LW rifles are measured. He did counterintuitive things like full length slim barrels which are all full length bedded. No free floating for Melvin on his premier ULA and NULA rifles. He designed and manufactured his own super LW stocks and assured that the critical balance was there by using barrels no shorter than 22" with the vast majority measuring 24". Not a flute or lightening cut to be found anywhere on a ULA/NULA. Melvin designed LW into his rifles and tweaked them to perfectly balanced perfection. His NULA's start somewhere north of $3K and he sells every single one he can make.
My LW Savage is a close approximation of a NULA but it is a bit heavier. My Savage does balance at the same point as my ULA Model 20 in 6mm Remington though and that pleases me very much.

[Savage6x284]

I will add that compact ie.short barrels, is NOT an overriding concern for a true LW mountain rifle. In fact Melvin Forbes heartily dislikes short barrels with their inherent increased blast and report and their ballistics compromises.

I will also add that a LW rifle, indeed any HUNTING rifle, should not be about producing small groups on paper. A hunting rifle needs to put the first shot from a cold and fouled bore exactly to POA EVERY SINGLE TIME. Without fail.
If they place the second and subsequent shots to POA then that is a wonderful bonus but they MUST under all circumstances put that first shot right where the shooter intended it to go.

[Mach2]

I went and checked for barrel length on the Forbes model 20 in 308. It was 21"

[Savage6x284]

You win Mach2.
Now let the OP decide which direction he wants to go with his LW likely to be chambered for the .280AI.
If further questions from the OP are directed at me I'll be happy to assist however I can. I expect you'll do the same if he directs any questions towards you.

[Savage6x284]

As I said earlier, building a LW based on a Savage action isn't going to net you a rifle as light as a NULA. It simply cannot be done when you start with an action a full pound or more heavier than the NULA action.
A person can however build a very sweet, perfectly balanced LW rifle with no compromises and if planned well that rifle can tip the scales at 7# even.
Carrying a perfectly balanced LW rifle over hill and dale for a few days is a revelation and one I wish more Savage aficionados got to experience.

There are scads of 10#+ Savages out there and many if not most folks here love to build them and revel in the accuracy and appearance obtained. That is a worthy and worthwhile goal and guidance for such a build is available here in abundance.
There are far less LW BG hunting rifles built here and guidance for a LW build is far more difficult to find. I'm doing what I can to provide such guidance based upon my own build and my experiences with other state of the art LW rifles built by other manufacturers.

[Mach2]

Savage 11 LWH 260 REM

Sku:19208

Handed:Right

Rate of Twist:8

Weight:5.5 lbs

Stock: walnut

Overall Length:40.25"

Barrel Length:20"

Ammo Capacity:4 round(s)

MSRP:$962.00

I copied and pasted this from Savages website. You can slap on a synthetic stock and you're below 5 lbs just like the $3000 Forbes

[Savage6x284]

Savage 11 LWH 260 REM

Sku:19208

Handed:Right

Rate of Twist:8

Weight:5.5 lbs

Stock: walnut

Overall Length:40.25"

Barrel Length:20"

Ammo Capacity:4 round(s)

MSRP:$962.00

I copied and pasted this from Savages website. You can slap on a synthetic stock and you're below 5 lbs just like the $3000 Forbes

First of all the Forbes rifle is $1400. His New Ultra Light Arms (NULA) rifles start at $3500.
Secondly the LWH has a 20" tube, flutes, lightening cuts, a wooden stock and has lousy balance IMO. IOW, a study in compromises that I'm unwilling to make even if it were $100.
Thirdly that action won't fit a .280AI cartridge.
Fourth, it doesn't come in left hand.

But, by all means order one up Mach2 and keep us apprised of your findings.
Please tell us about all the LW rifles you've owned or built. I for one am all ears.

[Savage6x284]

Colt56, should you have further questions or wish to hear further thoughts on building a no compromise LW Savage feel free to PM me here and I'll do what I can to help. It seems my experiences and advice ruffle some feathers for reasons unknown to me.

[Savage6x284]

The fact that I own rifles other than Savages is hardly out of the ordinary. I presume many here own rifles of other makes.
The fact that my passion with regard to rifles is LW rifles means that I own LW rifles from whoever makes them in a LH configuration.
These facts notwithstanding, when I chose to build a LW rifle from scratch I chose to do it on a Savage action.

There isn't a lot of information out there concerning LW Savage builds and I felt that my experience in this rarely trodden arena may perhaps prove useful for others attempting to do the same. That my yardstick is a relatively expensive custom built ULA is a credit to Savage and not a slap at them.
That I largely succeeded in making my Savage every bit as desirable as that ULA yardstick says a lot about the inherent goodness embodied in the 110 etal action and should give others wishing to build their own LW Savage encouragement and a certain knowledge that the rifle so built can compete in every way with the finest LW rifles available anywhere.
There was, and is, no intention of belittling anyone or any rifle.

[colt56]

I posted this thread knowing very few shooters on this forum build light weight rifles. That being said I appreciate everyone's knowledge and comments. I believe, from what I have read, the blind magazine action is the lightest. It looks like I will build off that action. So I will be looking for a blind magazine long action. I really like the look of mcm edge stock and like the numbers. I think I will do a #2 contour and it will be a 22 or 24 inch barrel. I realize reaching the kimber mtn ascent weight won't happen and that's okay. I just want a much lighter rifle than I have packed to this point. I will keep this thread updated on my progress and will pm if I have further questions, thanks all.

[tammons]

Its pretty easy to hit 7# or so with a scope on a short action internal mag if you buy all ultralight components and a short thin barrel. If you want to hit 7# with a long action and a decently long barrel you will probably have to go to a Carbon Fiber stock. Most likely with any 7# build you will need a Leopold Ultra light scope and ultralight rings.

Here are some weights.

SA w bolt egw base and mach lug with blind mag 36 oz
LA flt bk w bolt EGW base, lug, w DBM bx/mag – 40 oz
LA flt bk w bolt EGW base, lug, w internal mag – 38 oz

STOCKS

SA tupperware stock - 29 oz
SA duromax stock - 43 oz

LA DBM factory stock with complete magazine – old style - 38 oz
LA tupperware stock w some epoxy - 32 oz
LA duromax stock - 44 oz
Choate LA tactical – 4#
Choate Ultimate Varmint – 4.5#
Choate Ult Sniper – 6#


BARRELS

19" 308 cut down sporter barrel and nut – 36 oz
EST 16" 308 cut down sporter bbl - 32 oz
EST 20" 308 Pencil Barrel - 30-32 oz
24" 338 WM barre1 and nut - 51 oz
24" 358 wheln shaw bbl and nut - 58 oz
21" 458 wm barrel and nut - 48 oz
Cut 20" 358 whelen bbl and nut - 50 oz
Factory blued 22" 270 bbl - 41 oz
21" stainless 270 factory barrel and nut - 38 oz
30” bull barrel 308 and sav long action with mag and EGW base
30” bull barrel 308 – 107 oz ?
SCOPES

2-7x VX-1 leupold scope - 11 oz
1-4x VX-2 - 9 oz
Nikon prostaff 4-12x mildot - 14 oz
Sightmark 1-6x - 20 oz
Leupold 3-9x Ultralight - 9 oz
Sightron 10-50x – 29 oz
20xSS 22 oz

Misc

Factory recoil lug - 1 oz
Machined recoil lug - 1.5 oz
Burris extreme med rings, 1/2" - 6 oz
Burris extreme med rings, 30mm w 1 tac top - 6.2 oz
Burris zee rings steel low - 3 oz

Lightweight 308 Build - 6.8#

20" 308 pencil barrel - 32 oz
Short action with bolt weaver base and machined lug with blind magazine and action screws - +- 34 oz
SA tupperware stock - 29 oz
3-9 VX-2 ultralight - 9 oz
Lt rings - 3 oz