New 223 is cratering primers

[tomme boy]

I just picked up a new HB ib 223 this AM. I took it out this afternoon and ran about 100 rounds through it. I got a couple of pierced primers and all of the others are cratering. I know this is typical for savage but this is a new gun.

PTG bolt heads do fit the Axis right? What about head space? I don't want to mess with it if I don't have to. I am not going to send this in as it will be the exact same when I get it back. I just wish Savage would get off their rear and do something about this. It is a ongoing problem and they know about it but refuse to do anything.

Anyway, does the PTG bolt head fit or not?

[sixonetonoffun]

There are some things you can do but you didn't mention ammo factory/brand reloads/components?

I haven't run into this myself but there are posts.dealing with the issue and whats optimal pin strike. Some of softer primers will exaggerate the issue and there are some out there causing issues. Others have had.primers cause bolthead damage severe enough ww actually paid.to replace.them. You need to figure.out whats the.cause.before ya light up another 100 rd range session.


But I would include.the.missing information for feedback before doing something radical to the.pin and/or spring. Doubt its something you have to send back.and.wait for.6wks-3months.turn around.time.

[sixonetonoffun]

http://www.savageshooters.com/archive/index.php/t-24373.html

Might be helpful.

[tomme boy]

Remington UMC 55gr FMJ, Winchester 45 gr HP, Hornady 55gr Vmax and 75gr BTHP match. All factory. It pierced on a Remington and a Hornady.

So does the PTG bolt head for the 10 series work on the Axis?

[sixonetonoffun]

Yeah bolt heads the same 10 to axis no difference.

[cranebird]

Both of my axis cratered primers out of the box. Here is what I did to cure the problem.

http://s15.postimg.org/xxty82nwb/DSCN2385.jpg

See how the spring is bent back near the arm, I took a heavy bladed screwdriver and pushed down between the coils and opened the gap up so it looks like this.

http://s11.postimg.org/hjf3c1n37/DSCN2389.jpg

I hope this helps. :tea:

[tomme boy]

So you increased the spring pressure on the firing pin.

I have a email in to PTG, waiting on hearing from them to make a decision. If not I am going to try to reprofile the tip. That looks like a better option. But how do you reset the pin depth?

[cranebird]

So you increased the spring pressure on the firing pin.

I have a email in to PTG, waiting on hearing from them to make a decision. If not I am going to try to reprofile the tip. That looks like a better option. But how do you reset the pin depth?

Yes, basically it increased the spring tension by a thin margin but it was enough that they stopped the primer cratering. I didn't reset the pin depth. The cratering was caused from a weak firing pin spring or in this case being brand new, it was a compressed spring. I don't know whether they were formed that way or whether they were over compressed when assembling the bolt at the factory but both of my axis were that way. To reposition the spring tension after it was back together, I used the butt of a hammer handle and pushed the button into position but you can use the edge of a table or whatever you have available.

[tomme boy]

Well, if you release the pin so the pin is in the fired position, you can see a gap all the way around the pin. And the pin looks more round thsn pointed like it has been shown in a bunch of post to reprofile the tip. Looks like I am just going to give PTG a call tomorrow.

For the ones that have replaced the bolt heads, di you have to adjust the head space afterwards?

[cranebird]

Well, if you release the pin so the pin is in the fired position, you can see a gap all the way around the pin. And the pin looks more round thsn pointed like it has been shown in a bunch of post to reprofile the tip. Looks like I am just going to give PTG a call tomorrow.

For the ones that have replaced the bolt heads, di you have to adjust the head space afterwards?

I don't believe you need to re profile the firing pin but it is your rifle, do with it as you please.

[Gabe1972]

I'm trying not to sound too stupid, but what is cratering on a primer?

[tomme boy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/tommeboy/primer_zps9aef8b40.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tommeboy/media/primer_zps9aef8b40.jpg.html)

Photo off internet. Not mine

[Chrazy-Chris]

I'm trying not to sound too stupid, but what is cratering on a primer?

I'll back Gabe up and ask the next logical question - why is it bad?

[FW Conch]

It means that the explosion that has occurred inside the cartridge case has produced so much pressure that it has tried to push the primer through the firing pin hole. Almost certainly more pressure than the case is designed to handle. Any more pressure, and the primer could rupture, or blow out, causing damage to the action parts. :-((

[jonbearman]

Are you shooting ball ammo through this thing? If so try switching to hunting ammo and try it. Some of the ball ammo is nato type and can produce higher pressures in rifles with .223 rem chambers versus a wylde chamber which can shoot anything. If you are chambered in .223 rem stay away from ball ammo that is loaded slightly different.

[tomme boy]

Nope. 55 gr FMJ Remington UMC. 45 gr Winchester HP. I was also shooting some reloads with CCI 400 primers. I switched to 45 mag and it is still cratering, but it is not piercing anymore.

[OldLobo]

I was doing a little reading earlier as I'm new to reloading (kinda relevant here), on reloads the recommended primer I have seen in some cases is a Magnum version due to the high pressure of the 223. The cup is thicker. I have the Axis 223 also, and have cratered rounds I can safely say are well under max with no throat issues raising pressures. The primers which cratered were Winchester SR. I have "acquired" a few replacements in the form of CCI 450 Magnum small rifle primers (is this what you were referring to above?) hoping to alleviate the problem, we'll see... Good Luck!