Reload advice needed***NEW RANGE RESULTS***

[mrhaka]

Upon further analysis, the 70gr probably didn't have a chance to have a decent group.
They were loaded a hair below min setting. As a result, I have taken all similar brass (win)
and trimmed them to size, and loaded them in a step ladder format. The range for Varget
powder with a 70gr HPBT MatchKing bullet is 37---41gr. @ 2.625" . I loaded:
10 rds @ 37.5gr
" 38.5gr
" 39.5gr
" 40.5gr
I also have some 90gr FMJBT Gameking rounds I am going to load in similar fashion. I hope to
try them all out this weekend, and will post some results. After I find what loads best, I will
follow the procedure you folks mentioned about the "lands" (new to me). I hope the 70's shoot
well enough to keep, I have 200 rds of them.
thanks, MH

[L.H. Clark]

Please do post back Mr....and way to be.. never give up! You are SURE to find that sweet load. A few more trips to the range and you'll have it.. I love this part of it all. Then you know what your rifle will do and your confidence goes through the roof with that rifle and in general and you will be taking shots that your buddies will talk about for years.... :o Good luck and enjoy..

[mrhaka]

Back with range results
I can't explain this: The 70gr is out shooting the 90gr by a wide margin???
I have read that my 9.25" twist works best with 100gr bullets?
It proved that last week when I originally posted this thread.
Except for the center of target #2, these are all 5 shot groups. The 70gr shot so well that my shots doubled up on the holes.
Check out these results:
MrHaka
I loaded up some more 243 to test out two different sized bullets:
Sierra 70gr MatchKing HPBT
5 rds @ 37.5gr IMR4064 (target #1)
5 rds @ 38.5gr IMR4064 "
5 rds @ 39.5gr IMR4064 "
5 rds @ 40.5gr IMR4064 "
5 rds Rem 100gr(store bought) "

Sierra 90gr GameKing FMJBT
5 rds @ 35.0gr IMR4064 (target #2)
5 rds @ 36.0gr IMR4064 "
5 rds @ 37.0gr IMR4064 "
5 rds @ 38.0gr IMR4064 "
4 rds @ 38.5gr IMR4064 " <<<=== 70gr MatchKing (notice how the 70gr started to group again, as compared to the 90gr)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/bwanatom/Guns/DSCF0660.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y151/bwanatom/Guns/DSCF0658.jpg

[1Shot]

...Look&#39;s like 40.5 wins that round... 8)

[bythebook]

Isn&#39;t it a little lopsided comparing a match bullet to a FMJBT in tests ?

[Budweiser360]

I&#39;m not sure why you are going in 1 grain increments but I START my load development with 3rds in .5grn increments all at the same seating depth. See what groups together the best and then go to .2 grain increments from that to further tune. If I still feel the groups could be tighter THEN I will play with seating depth.

Don&#39;t reinvent the wheel, try loads that work and go from there.

[borg]

When I look at your targets I see 5 dead varmints and 5 dead deer, but that&#39;s just me. Could this have anything to do with the burn rate of your powder? It looks like IMR 4064 is pretty efficient at pushing the 70 grainers, but not so hot with the heavier for caliber bullets.

[mrhaka]

Look&#39;s like 40.5 wins that round... Cool*

Isn&#39;t it a little lopsided comparing a match bullet to a FMJBT in tests ?*

I&#39;m not sure why you are going in 1 grain increments but I START my load development with 3rds in .5grn increments all at the same seating depth. See what groups together the best and then go to .2 grain increments from that to further tune. If I still feel the groups could be tighter THEN I will play with seating depth.
Don&#39;t reinvent the wheel, try loads that work and go from there.*

When I look at your targets I see 5 dead varmints and 5 dead deer, but that&#39;s just me. Could this have anything to do with the burn rate of your powder? It looks like IMR 4064 is pretty efficient at pushing the 70 grainers, but not so hot with the heavier for caliber bullets.

Yea, the 40.5g is a nice tight group, thanks

As far as a Match bullet compared to a FMJ, I&#39;m not sure how they should compare, but Sierra says this about them: GameKing® bullets are designed for hunting at long range, where their extra margin of performance can make the critical difference. GameKing® bullets feature a boat tail design to bring hunters the ballistic advantage of match bullets.
The streamlined tapered base of the boat tail bullet greatly reduces drag, which results in higher retained velocity, greater striking energy, a flatter trajectory and less wind drift than comparable flat base bullets. Maybe I&#39;ll see if I can get some 90-100g Match bullets to try out.

The reason I went one grain at a time was to focus in on the best part of the range, in a coarse method. When I got into the ballpark, I will then go to much smaller increments.

I have 4 lbs of Varget, which is right next to IMR4064 on the burn rate chart I&#39;m going to try.

thanks for your help,
MrHaka

[mrhaka]

bythebook
Isn&#39;t it a little lopsided comparing a match bullet to a FMJBT in tests ?
I just got off the phone with a ballistic tech from Sierra. He told me a couple things that I definitely didn&#39;t know.
1) The 90grain fmjbt is the worst possible bullet I could shoot in my rifle (or any rifle) for accuracy. That bullet was designed for one purpose, and one purpose only, to shoot wild game in Europe with the "least" amount of pelt/flesh damage. The fmj is installed backwards, front to rear, making the bullet very difficult to balance. The tech told me he doesn&#39;t know of any rifle out there that can shoot this bullet for accuracy, and that I should not expect it to have any good grouping.
2) My 9.25" twist should stabilize any grain size from 55 to 100g.
3)Anybody want to buy some 90gr GameKing HPBT bullets?

good call bythebook,
MrHaka

[memilanuk]

First... the twist rate isn&#39;t fast at all. 9-1/8 to 9-1/4 has been used in factory .243 Win rifles from all makers for decades with great success with bullets from 55gr on up. There is absolutely no reason (based on twist rate) that thing should have any problem with 70 *OR* 90gr bullets.

Second... it should work (more or less) with bullets in the 100gr range if they are *hunting bullets*. These tend to not be near as needle/spike shaped i.e. long for caliber as say, a 105gr match bullet, and that is generally the difference between working in a 9.25 twist and needing a 1-8 twist. There are some *very* good match/varmint bullets in the 85-95gr range though, for exactly that reason - they should stabilize in the slightly slower 9-10" twist barrels that are so common. There are, of course, exceptions to this &#39;general&#39; thumb rule - sometimes people find heavier match bullets work okay in their 9.whatever twists, sometimes the extra &#39;oomph&#39; of a bigger case like the .243 (vs. a 6 BR) may let you get away with it.

[memilanuk]

Ack. Looks like the Sierra guy told you about what I was typing... ;)

[mrhaka]

Ack. Looks like the Sierra guy told you about what I was typing... Yes, it appears so. I learned something. I just have to find a use for so many 90g GameKing bullets, &#39;cause they are useless to me.
MrHaka

[memilanuk]

Save &#39;em for gun show trading bait to &#39;sweeten&#39; the deal ;)

[desertdog]

keep it simple!! u know the rest!! so do i. lol!! take your time and look at what you want from your rifle and loads!! small groups at the bench or that coyote at 300 yards? ;)

[mrhaka]

Save &#39;em for gun show trading bait to &#39;sweeten&#39; the deal

keep it simple!! u know the rest!! so do i. lol!! take your time and look at what you want from your rifle and loads!! small groups at the bench or that coyote at 300 yards?
Well, maybe I&#39;ll take to my club pro shop and sell them half price. By the way, Midway said they would buy the one unopened box back from me, but is it worth the hassle shipping and cost? Can you ship bullets without any hassle legally?

Yes, simple is more fun for me. I loaded up some 58gr Hornady VMax&#39;s to see how my rifle will handle them. It should be interesting.

thanks, MrHaka

[desertdog]

good luck!! ;D

[memilanuk]

Can you ship bullets without any hassle legally?


Yep. Nothing special required. Even loaded rounds only require a sticker stating &#39;ORM-D Cartridges, Small Arms&#39; to declare the contents. Shipping powder and primers are more of a PITA, though.

Both Berger and Sierra make a 6mm 95gr match bullet that should work pretty well in that 9.25" twist but as mentioned it may or may not be the ticket for &#39;yotes. The 55-58gr stuff will explode varmints like Gallagher&#39;s hammer in amongst the watermelons at shorter ranges, but flies like a dang whiffle-ball in the wind at longer distances. Hornady&#39;s 87gr V-Max looks (on paper) to be the best of both worlds - varmint bullet construction, but with a higher BC and more smack-factor at distance than most pure varmint bullets. I&#39;ve seen a lot of varied reports on getting them to actually shoot accurately. I&#39;ve got several boxes here that I need to get off my behind and get ta working on load development in my 6-6.5x47L... the 70-75gr bullets seem to be a pretty popular compromise across the board, and as you saw with your load testing... they shoot pretty well.

[wbm]

The tech told me he doesn&#39;t know of any rifle out there that can shoot this bullet for accuracy, and that I should not expect it to have any good grouping.

Years ago I had a heavy barrel Ruger in .243. It shot everything well except the FMJ 90g Sierra. Don&#39;t know how long and how many load combination&#39;s I went through before I just gave up. Shouda just called Sierra like you did.

[Pete K.]

mrhaka,

Looking at the target, you fired only 5 rounds with the reloads....all different powder charges correct?

There is no possible way for you to make any kind of conclusion based on what you fired. The 70g Sierra should shoot very well in that Savage. Work up a load slowly and find the best powder charge for your barrel. 3 shot groups are okay but since you have a heavy barrel and are shooting target bullets, I&#39;d do five at each charge.

Once you find the charge, fine tune the load with small changes in seating depth. IMR 4064 is a good powder but it can make a barrel hot real fast so be aware of how fast you&#39;re shooting.


RIGHT!! Five round groups. And use a different target for each load!! Take notes as to the powder charge, seating depth/AOL etc. Compare
apples to apples... Otherwise there is no information gained...

Pete

Go load up some more rounds, fire &#39;em and report back.

[mrhaka]

Years ago I had a heavy barrel Ruger in .243. It shot everything well except the FMJ 90g Sierra. Don&#39;t know how long and how many load combination&#39;s I went through before I just gave up. Shouda just called Sierra like you did.
Pete K.I haven&#39;t shot many different loads or bullets yet, as I am still trying to hone in to accuracy, but I am convinced that these 90g FMU&#39;s will not shoot accurately. They just are not built for target shooting. Nobody can shoot them accurate.


Once you find the charge, fine tune the load with small changes in seating depth. IMR 4064 is a good powder but it can make a barrel hot real fast so be aware of how fast you&#39;re shooting. Yes, that was my original intention, to do a coarse step ladder, then fine tune around the best grouping. thanks.


RIGHT!! Five round groups. And use a different target for each load!! Take notes as to the powder charge, seating depth/AOL 10-4, I am going to do the same test again with just he 70g. Problem is, all the 5 shot groupings on the target look pretty good, so which load do I pick?

Model 12 VLP-SS-S .223 "Big Chief Lil&#39; Beaver Happy camper now!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/pdexter46/DSCN0380.jpgBCL, that is a sweet looking rifle, you have good taste. It was difficult to choose betwist the .223 and the .243. Both are great guns. If I could have only one caliber rifle, it might be the .223. But I chose the .243 because I wanted to get an AR-15 in .223. Not to say you couldn&#39;t have both in.223, but just my thinking.
Good luck to ya,
MrHaka