Newbie 111LRH 300WIN questions (COAL, Fliers, Velocity)

[entoptics]

Great forum you have here.

Just picked up a 300 win LRH. Used, but appeared like new in the box, so I took the chance. It's a serious boom stick. I like it a lot, but I have a few "misgivings" I'd like to discuss with the experts around here.

1) Fliers? It shoots good, but has a "flier" issue I can't pin down. My buddy and I are experienced reloaders and shooters, so I'm ruling out "a loose nut on the trigger". The gun tends to send one out of every 3-5 rounds off into space. A typical 4-5 shot group will have 3 near touching, and one or two that's off by an inch or more. No pattern really in terms of which shot will go funky in the string.

2) The "free floated" barrel touches the stock ever so slightly on the left side at the end. Is this intentional? Could it be causing the fliers?

3) COAL to rifling (~3.56" depending on bullet) is ~0.1" longer than the magazine will tolerate (3.47"). This seems like excessive throat/leade, when most reloading manuals report COAL at about 3.3" give or take.

4) Excessive velocity. I'm getting 100-150 fps over the quoted MAX velocities in reloading manuals, with several powders and bullets even though I've stayed a fair bit under the listed max charge. Primers and brass seem fine when compared to some factory ammo I've shot, though I've had a couple blackened primers and loose pockets on the really smoky stuff. Obviously I need to back down, but I'm just curious as to why the rifle would run so hot considering my OAL is long, and my leade is even longer.

All in all, I love the rifle. Even with the nasty fliers, I'm averaging just over an inch, but it galls me to see a ragged 0.5" group with one loner hanging out an inch away.

Thanks for the great resources. Let me know what you think.

[LoneWolf]

1) Fliers? It shoots good, but has a "flier" issue I can't pin down. My buddy and I are experienced reloaders and shooters, so I'm ruling out "a loose nut on the trigger". The gun tends to send one out of every 3-5 rounds off into space. A typical 4-5 shot group will have 3 near touching, and one or two that's off by an inch or more. No pattern really in terms of which shot will go funky in the string.

This model has a sporter barrel that will heat up quickly. You probably need to let it cool for 2-3min between shots when shooting groups as the higher the heat gets the higher the pressure will also get because it will make your chambered round hotter as well!

2) The "free floated" barrel touches the stock ever so slightly on the left side at the end. Is this intentional? Could it be causing the fliers?

This needs to be fixed as it can most certainly be causing fliers and other issues. First thing I would try is removing the action from the stock and retorquing to appropriate specs. If it is still an issue we can move forward from there.

3) COAL to rifling (~3.56" depending on bullet) is ~0.1" longer than the magazine will tolerate (3.47"). This seems like excessive throat/leade, when most reloading manuals report COAL at about 3.3" give or take.

Pressure spikes can come from both seating long and short. If you are jammed into the lands you can definitely have pressure spikes. Most may start "kissing" the lands, but not jammed and work back seating depth to as much as .040 off the lands.

4) Excessive velocity. I'm getting 100-150 fps over the quoted MAX velocities in reloading manuals, with several powders and bullets even though I've stayed a fair bit under the listed max charge. Primers and brass seem fine when compared to some factory ammo I've shot, though I've had a couple blackened primers and loose pockets on the really smoky stuff. Obviously I need to back down, but I'm just curious as to why the rifle would run so hot considering my OAL is long, and my leade is even longer.

Every rifle is different. You may have got what's known as a "fast barrel" sometimes you just get lucky and don't have to try hard to get the higher velocity or you may be at max load for the rifle already (Could be due to a tighter chamber or many other items).


Welcome to the forum, with all the experience here we will definitely aid you in getting the info you need. It's been a great experience for me over the last year.

[entoptics]

The LRH has has a heavier barrel than a spotter I believe, but yes, it is not a heavy target barrel. In my experience though, heat shouldn't scramble a group before the barrel is too hot to touch (5-10 shots for this rifle).

I did reseat the stock. Used a fat wrench and did it in increments. It seems sound, but the rubberized "coating" is nuzzling the barrel. Perhaps I will sand it. Nothing else is touching.

I'm sure I'm not jammed into the lands. Chambering painted dummies and homemade OAL gauge both returned average values within 0.02", which are ~0.1" longer than I've been loading (~3.46") due to the magazine. I'd like to seat closer to the lands, but obviously I don't want a 1+1 capacity rifle so I guess I'm stuck at 3.46".

Thanks for the quick reply

[eddiesindian]

I had a rifle that was giving me the same results as your getting. I decided to de-copper the barrel and give it an extreme cleaning. Much to my suprise it tightend up the groupings.
The majority of my rifles do better with "some" copper on the rifling.....not this one.