Looking for Some Advice on 308 Loads

[therichardpowell]

I'll be following this thread as I am in almost the same boat. New to reloading and working with a 308.

Very good looking rifle if I may say so. Which SS scope is that you have? I just got mine a bit ago and have yet to get to dial a solution and it's killing me. Tomorrow it's happening.

[390fe]

I see a lot of great replies here!

First off, I'm not a benchrest shooter - I use a shooting mat and go prone for serious work. Different targets at different distances with lots of wind adjustments.

I've also roughly followed the M118LR recipe for my Savage with good results - Sierra 175 grain MatchKings and both Accurate 4064 and IMR 4064 powders. The best thing I did was to sort my brass according to headstamp and keep everything in the reloading process as consistant as possible.

It may be be of some benifit for you to try some benchrest primers. I can't recommend one brand over another, but perhaps buy a box each (100 primers) of two or three different brands to try out. Maybe you'll notice a difference, maybe not.

Maybe it's been mentioned already, but after you've reloaded your cases so many times the brass will work-harden. At some point you will want to anneal the case necks and shoulders to soften them up again. It can be done quickly with just a few basic tools you probably already own.

Consistency will be your best asset. Keep a notebook handy and log any changes to your materials or processes.

[Chrazy-Chris]

Thanks for all the good info guys! I just finished loading a ladder of 175SMKs over 4064.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/04/ygaqyqyz.jpg

They should be seated right on the rifling. I used the .002" neck tension which was much easier to tweak than the OAL. This is my first time loading neck-sized fire formed brass and I'm looking forward to seeing the results. Wish me luck! I'll follow up with results.

[therichardpowell]

I like your label. I'm gonna have to borrow that idea. In my infinite wisdom I put them in the box and wrote on a regular label what they were in a way I thought I could remember... I put everything down for a year and now I have a bunch of non sense cryptic labels that don't make sense...

[Chrazy-Chris]

...Very good looking rifle if I may say so. Which SS scope is that you have? I just got mine a bit ago and have yet to get to dial a solution and it's killing me. Tomorrow it's happening.

Thanks! It is the SWFA SS 16x42. I am not impressed at all with the clarity but everything else works fine for me. I plan on using it until I can afford something nicer. I've heard the 10x is much more clear though. Which one did you go with?

[therichardpowell]

I got the 10x and the clarity is quite nice. I stayed with the lower power for that reason though. I shot long range with it for the first time yesterday and I am so incredibly happy with the reticle. It is quite awesome. So far I am very pleased with the whole scope. It's reputation stands behind it that's for sure.

[Luke45]

Thanks for all the good info guys! I just finished loading a ladder of 175SMKs over 4064.



They should be seated right on the rifling. I used the .002" neck tension which was much easier to tweak than the OAL. This is my first time loading neck-sized fire formed brass and I'm looking forward to seeing the results. Wish me luck! I'll follow up with results.

sounds like a recipe for success! you will probly still need to twaek it a bit but id bet money they will shoot well!

[jon8777]

Sorry if I offend anyone, but I a lot of these really intricate reloading practices don't even come Into play unless your top .1% of all shooters, snd are well under the range if human error. in a lot of cases your loosing trigger time and practice by over complicating your reloading process when so many other factors are more important than a bullet weighing .1 gr more than another.

Size, prime, weight powder, seat bullet.

Then turn your seating depth powder charge and neck tension to your rifle

Being able to judge wind, familiarity with your rifle, crisp trigger pull, and tuning the correct load will do one thousand fold more for you than spending 10 minutes per bullet on the loading bench. Now once you start shooting 3" groups at 1000 yards then all that other stuff comes into play.

If you miss judge the wind by 2mph, or your parallax isn't perfect, or it's 5 degrees warmer than you though, then all the litter extra steps you took were wasted.

Guys don't over complicate it, sometimes a bobber and worm is the best bait even though it's boring

Amen... And if you cant call your shot, after taking your shot with out looking at the target.... Keep on shooting. Shoot your 22lr rifle at 200 yards and learn wind drift and shooting from that. Your going to have the same results/bullet behaviors as high power at 1000 yards

[michaelnel]

I think we need to s'ummon the Apos'trophe Cop's for thi's thread! ;-)

[Chrazy-Chris]

I finally got to the range today and here is the best five shot group of the lot:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3838/14869363432_f004e90f10_c.jpg
175SMK, 44gr IMR 4064

From setup:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3891/14889575913_3174bf5009_c.jpg
Caldwell Rock Jr. front rest, MidwayUSA squeeze bag in the rear

Here are the rest of the targets (note: 44.5 also showed some promise). The second shot with the 45gr group blew a primer, so I called it quits there. There was also noticeably more recoil and the bolt handle had some rough resistance when lifting it up starting with the 44.5gr loads. Hopefully none of these higher loads could have possibly damaged the rifle?

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3868/14683181907_f90fdd6954_c.jpg
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14866627771_e3815205b0_c.jpg
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3838/14866628201_f4b14e2c17_c.jpg



I also shot up some of the Federal Gold Medal 175SMK I had left, which resulted in one of the best groups I've had so far (bottom right- 5 shot group, about 1/2" OD). Unfortunately, it's just not consistent (or I'm not consistent). I noticed the peel and stick targets were much easier to shoot because of the nice thin crosshairs which made it easier to be precise by matching up the crosshairs of my scope.
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3918/14683179567_8e2b37ef05_c.jpg

Edit: And Jon, I took your advice and shot my 22lr some. The range was only 100yrds but it still provided some good practice:
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3842/14867243954_638549d296_c.jpg
Ruger 10/22 (fully customized by yours truly, of course)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3898/14683068399_8a9cb8d027_c.jpg
Five shot group- SK HV. About 1" (not bad for 100yrds with a 22lr)

[michaelnel]

I finally got to the range today and here is the best five shot group of the lot:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3838/14869363432_f004e90f10_c.jpg
175SMK, 44gr IMR 4064

That group is actually better than it seems. You are measuring it wrong. Measure center to center. You are measuring from outside to outside edge.

[FW Conch]

1.1425-.3080=.8345" :-))

[Chrazy-Chris]

Wow, so that makes the group with Federal Gold Match only a half an inch:

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3835/14880005444_c500fd8c28_c.jpg
Believe it or not, this is a 5-shot group even though it only looks like three.

Now to get my reloads shooting that good consistently...

[Chrazy-Chris]

Here's a photo of the two cartridges I shot with 45gr of IM4064 which blew one of the primers so I stopped. How bad is this on the rifle? Is this dangerous? The max load according to IMR was 45.5gr so I was within the recommended load. Flattening of the primer and the indentation of the extractor plunger is evident.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14880270274_a6eb5845e4_b.jpg

[michaelnel]

Definitely stop if you see either of those. The one on the left is showing a cratered primer and the brass is flowing into the extractor area (circular area at 2-3 o'clock). The one on the right is flowing into the xtractor even worse. These are both way too hot for your rifle.

You should be working your way up in powder charges, checking for signs of overpressure as you go. The fact that you shot these shows you were not doing that, because rounds loaded lighter than these would have been showing pressure signs as well before you ever got to these.

[cranebird]

Here's a photo of the two cartridges I shot with 45gr of IM4064 which blew one of the primers so I stopped. How bad is this on the rifle? Is this dangerous? The max load according to IMR was 45.5gr so I was within the recommended load. Flattening of the primer and the indentation of the extractor plunger is evident.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14880270274_a6eb5845e4_b.jpg

Hot diggity :censored:. I'm glad you stopped when you did and yes it looks quite dangerous..... What powder scale are you using ?

[Chrazy-Chris]

I was using the small Franklin Arsenal scale (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/175512/frankford-arsenal-ds-750-electronic-powder-scale-750-grain-capacity?cm_vc=ProductFinding). I calibrate before each use using the supplied weight and I check that it's zero'ed out every 2-3 rounds.

The loads that shot the tightest group were 44gr, which is 1gr less than the the ones that popped the primer. The 44gr also showed the extractor area slightly. If I'm so far below the max, why is it overpressured? I can even vaguely see the extractor ring with the 43gr loads (for reference- 41.5gr was the minimum recommended load).

What powder weight range do your reloading manuals give for 4064 over a 175gr bullet? Maybe I need to try going below the min until I hit the next "node" for my rifle?

[FW Conch]

"C C", Federal brass is thicker than Remington or Winchester, which is about the thinnest, which means it has less case volume, producing more pressure with the same volume of powder. Also, in my experience, and I don't know why, 4064 seems to produce more bang than the loading manuals suggest. With Federal and Military cases, using 4064, I am especially careful to start low and work up slowly, looking carefully for pressure signs along the way. And I have never reached max with the combinations mentioned above. Keep in mind, when you see any visual indication of pressure on a primer, you already have a pressure situation. My guess is you are at least over 70,000psi on those pictures you posted?

My advise is, slow down, read more, and "BE SAFE" ! :-))

[thermaler]

"C C", Federal brass is thicker than Remington or Winchester, which is about the thinnest, which means it has less case volume, producing more pressure with the same volume of powder. Also, in my experience, and I don't know why, 4064 seems to produce more bang than the loading manuals suggest. With Federal and Military cases, using 4064, I am especially careful to start low and work up slowly, looking carefully for pressure signs along the way. And I have never reached max with the combinations mentioned above. Keep in mind, when you see any visual indication of pressure on a primer, you already have a pressure situation. My guess is you are at least over 70,000psi on those pictures you posted?

My advise is, slow down, read more, and "BE SAFE" ! :-))My less than 2 cents: If you're going to go to the trouble of reloading--use quality brass--my fav is new Lapua.

[therichardpowell]

I have to agree that I am not a fan of federal brass. I have some and I have fired as little as two times and had a primer pocket be toasted. With only .2 over minimum load too. Seems really soft to me. I keep them around for when someone gets a new gun but don't have anything to load. Ain't giving away my Winchester brass.