Varget powder

[eddiesindian]

Thanks, I've still got a pile of main, idle jets and mixers and Boysen reeds left over from the old days. It was a good day when Bel Ray was burning in the early morning light. I'll have to get the watch....

yes it was a great day to see the bel ray smoken. I used Castor Bean oil for one race season and when it came time to pull the cylinder for new ris-pin/piston/brg,, I was extremely suprised as to see no wear at all on rod brgs, and thrust brgs incluidng the ris pin.
Man how I miss those days. It sadens my heart knowing I have to rid myself of one of my race bikes.........

[cranebird]

Well I broke down and bought a can of varget today. I said previously that the 3031 was possibly for the future 6mmBR, this varget is also but in reality If I get the 6BR like I 'm hoping to do, Reloader 15 is all I'll need.So I bought a can of Varget powder to sit on the shelf and see if the wife notices another can added to the collection. Thanks for all of the responses.This thread has certainly been entertaining.

Ivan

[foxx]

whats your elevation and speed?

I dont know. Will crony next week. Elevation is also unknown. I have only shot in mid Michigan. Not that sophisticated yet.

Edit: Elevation is 799 feet

[cranebird]

Ok, so I reload 3 rounds of varget at 23.5 gr. to beat the thunderstorm coming in and shot this at 100 yards.
http://s20.postimg.org/jvqhmvlkd/DSCN2373.jpg


It was a cold bore start, first round took the higher right flyer route which is normal for this axis. This stupid stock barrel shoots well for a budget gun.I'm going to miss it when I put the .223 AI barrel on in its place. The sightron cross hair completely covers the white center ring at 100 yards being only a 9 x isn't helping. I need to get a better scope with fine crosshairs. I can't wait to work the powder up and get a barrel warm up for the test.23.3 is starting,I just threw 23.5 gr on the scale with the first dipper scoop out of the can and followed it with 2 more the same weight. What fun !

[thermaler]

RL 15,17, 19 and 22 floats my boat for most everything. Oh and 4064 too.

[DanSavage]

Nice Cranebird, what bullet are you using?

[cranebird]

52 gr Speer HPBT match bullets. I picked up the Hornady 52 gr match bullets as well but haven't tried them yet. Looking for the Berger as well but haven't sourced them yet. I got a email that my barrel is shipping out tomorrow. Tomorrow, I will be in Buffalo VA and then the surgery Friday morning. Hopefully things go well so I can pursue this f class competition. Thanks for all of your help.
Ivan

[eddiesindian]

I dont know. Will crony next week. Elevation is also unknown. I have only shot in mid Michigan. Not that sophisticated yet.

Edit: Elevation is 799 feet

thanks

[eddiesindian]

In general altitude density is reduced the higher your altitude. Humidity and heat also reduce air density.

I can see dry heat reducing the density. But the more humidity, the more water molecules increasing density.
I consider myself really lucky to have the wide open mountain terrrains and elevations that go from 3800 all the way up tp 5000 due to our mountain valleys.

[thermaler]

I'm no fizzics expert, but I believe hydrogen has less mass than oxygen or nitrogen (assuming temp is constant)--so the more water vapor is present in the air--the less dense it is. Remember the Zeppelins! : )

[FW Conch]

??? I think your logic is way off on this one thermaler ???

I think water vapor is denser than all the others mentioned?

Just Sayin :-))

[thermaler]

http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/260/

I'm also a glider pilot--and need to be very aware of air density. Every now and then you'll hear of crashes where a plane didn't get off the ground in time in hot, humid conditions due to heavy loading.

[FW Conch]

That's what I love about this place! I learn something new every day !

Thanks.....Jim :-))

[eddiesindian]

The air is defently heavier in humid conditions. Ive purposely gone out to the desert valleys in adverse conditions (high humidity) and started sending rounds out to 1K and found my poi falling short by about 1-1.5 moa @ 1K. 10 inches doesnt sound like much buts its the difference between a hit or a miss.
Ive shot the same rig out to the same distance in dry conditions and my rounds went where there supposed to go.
Frankly, Id much rather deal with wet air as opposed to dry "windy" air. Seems like the more i think I have my windage adjustments figured out, the more the Gods of wind send me back to school.

[thermaler]

The air is defently heavier in humid conditions.....Not true my friend--but whatever. ; )

[thermaler]

That's what I love about this place! I learn something new every day !

Thanks.....Jim :-))I have to admit it does seem counter-intuitive--this one fools a lot of people.

[eddiesindian]

fooled indeed.
some-not all ballistic calculators ask for humidity levels.
What ive found is that the higher the humidity, the more drop of the projectile. be as it may, its slight but at distance, it makes a world of difference.
Luckily for me, the ballistic calculator I use doesnt ask for humidity nor baro pressure. defently ask for temp and altitude along with the rest of needed inputs and has always been spot on. I know that altitude and baro pressure almost go hand in hand relatively speaking.
Id of figured theres more water molecules in the air causing more of a bullet drag.
apparantly not

[thermaler]

fooled indeed.
some-not all ballistic calculators ask for humidity levels.
What ive found is that the higher the humidity, the more drop of the projectile. be as it may, its slight but at distance, it makes a world of difference.
Luckily for me, the ballistic calculator I use doesnt ask for humidity nor baro pressure. defently ask for temp and altitude along with the rest of needed inputs and has always been spot on. I know that altitude and baro pressure almost go hand in hand relatively speaking.
Id of figured theres more water molecules in the air causing more of a bullet drag.
apparantly notI don't doubt for a second that your results are exactly what you say--and can see why you might think humidity actually adds mass to the air.
I definitely don't have the ballistics knowledge or long distance trajectory experience that you do--but I'm guessing that the other factors like pressure altitude and air temperature probably have more effect on your results than the additional humidity you experienced.

I've been flying for almost 30 years--and have learned that the atmosphere is a very dynamic environment that rarely can be modeled with precise accuracy by even our best supercomputers--just look at how often the weather guys get it wrong. Much modeling assumes standard rates of change in things like ambient air cooling and barometric pressure changes--but those standards can literally and figuratively be tossed to the wind depending upon things like a frontal passage, temperature inversions (very common in mountainous terrain) and heating/cooling of the earth's surface (convective heating). All other factors held constant--humid air is less dense than dry air--but I'm guessing what you experienced was a greater temperature or altitude density change which had a greater effect on your bullet's trajectory than the humidity.

This article on Lilja's website explalns why, in calculating the effects of humidity on a bullet's trajectory, humidity is considered negligible when compared to temperature and barometric pressure and is probably why some programs exclude humidity in their calculations. http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/bullets_ballastics/density_bullet_performance.htm In the aviation community humid air can have profound consequences--both beneficial and disastrous.

[acemisser]

don't workfor me either..H 4895 is the best for me....la la la

[emtrescue6]

I have had the same experience as Frank when it comes to Varget...I tried it a couple of times with mediocre results and never went back.