View Full Version : Straight walled rifle build
Stockrex
07-29-2014, 07:16 PM
Thanks guys, would an ar in 450 be legal in mi to hunt?
Maybe cuz got up at 4 am, but without a shoulder how would you headspace.
scope eye
07-29-2014, 07:33 PM
It headspaces off the mouth in a bolt action, case length is 1.7"
Dean
bootsmcguire
07-29-2014, 11:11 PM
Yup, headspaces off the mouth. Deano is correct, of course ;).
I headspaced my 450BM and 444 using nominally sized and trimmed brass. Works fine in the 450BM and see no reason it won't in the 444, but a trip to the range will tell for sure.
You may give your DNR office a call and verify the exact rules on straight wall. Some states still consider the 450BM a straight wall even though it is ever so slightly tapered, but because it has no bottleneck it is a straight wall in their eyes. Get it in writing for sure if you have any doubts. The 45-70, 444 Marlin, 375Win, and 50 AE are all considered by most states as Deer Legal "Straight Wall" cartridges and they all have a bit of taper same as the 450BM.
450 Bushmaster
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx111/bootsmcguire/450bm_zpsdc692758.jpg (http://s747.photobucket.com/user/bootsmcguire/media/450bm_zpsdc692758.jpg.html)
444 Marlin
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx111/bootsmcguire/444marlin_zpsf6eb1e21.jpg (http://s747.photobucket.com/user/bootsmcguire/media/444marlin_zpsf6eb1e21.jpg.html)
45-70 Government
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx111/bootsmcguire/45-70Government_zps26dbb0b5.gif (http://s747.photobucket.com/user/bootsmcguire/media/45-70Government_zps26dbb0b5.gif.html)
375 Winchester
http://i747.photobucket.com/albums/xx111/bootsmcguire/4c92a04e-2a63-4bc8-86f9-936ece67409a_zps88312d54.jpg (http://s747.photobucket.com/user/bootsmcguire/media/4c92a04e-2a63-4bc8-86f9-936ece67409a_zps88312d54.jpg.html)
Just check and be sure with your states Game Wardens or DNR. Like I said, many states allow these and by the rules that I am aware of (I am no expert only going off of what you guys are saying in various threads here) the 450BM would be considered the same.
Hope I didn't muddy the waters too much, ;).
scope eye
07-30-2014, 07:25 AM
For the life of me I can't figure out, what they were trying to achieve or accomplish, and what they were getting at with the restriction on straight wall cases, for the love of god this whole country fed themselves for the first two century's hunting with that type of casing, good grief.
Dean
For the life of me I can't figure out, what they were trying to achieve or accomplish, and what they were getting at with the restriction on straight wall cases, for the love of god this whole country fed themselves for the first two century's hunting with that type of casing, good grief.
Dean
I think they are trying to define their intention... That is, to allow a some sort of "limited, low-power rifle". The construction of the cartridge is not the issue. Michigan, for example, has allowed "straight walled cartridge" pistols in southern Michigan for many years, but, for safety sake, does not want deer hunters firing long-range (300 yards) rifles in the more heavily populated areas of southern Michigan. For a long time they have only allowed straight walled pistol, (taper okay), muzzle loaders and shotguns down here. Now the modern muzzle loaders and rifled shotguns are shooting accurately to 200 yards without a whole lot of mayhem, or destruction to property, so the argument is why not allow certain smokeless cartridge rifles that are similar to these? That's reasonable, but how do you define such a thing? The intent is clear, but defining it and making the rules easy to enforce and follow is another story.
jonbearman
07-30-2014, 01:56 PM
Get a go gage and no go if you think it is necessary. Then just set the headspace and you should take the ejector out when doing this. Check with ptg and foester or Clymer for the correct gage.
scope eye
07-30-2014, 07:03 PM
Apache is making me a set of 450 BM gauges, that will be ready by weeks end, so if you want to send me your Info and I will lend them to you, and that goes for anyone else that may need them.
Dean
Thanks, Dean, I may do that.
I just learned a short while ago that Manson Precision Reamers is located a couple miles from my house. I am told they make great tools. I called there to day to find out if they sell gages over the counter. They do. I guess I now have a pretty good source that's rather handy. If they will rent them, I am truly in luck.
Remingtonman
07-30-2014, 10:14 PM
Be careful with your cartridge choice legally.
Michigan has passed a similar law but does not allow 450 Marlin or 45-70. There is a limit to the case length. That's why I am going with 450 BM as opposed to 45-70 Govt or 450 Marlin.
Yep your right there. I was planning on going to build a 450 bm for my ohio rifle but found out that it is not allowed along with the 450 marlin :(. Im thinking about just building a .460 s&w if I can go that route
Should heed my own advice, maybe. I am assuming 450BM is allowed, based on initial specs I read somewhere here. I hope they don't exclude 450BM.
Hotolds442
07-31-2014, 10:36 AM
Michigan says: A .35-caliber or larger rifle loaded with straight-walled cartridges that have a minimum case length of 1.16 and a maximum case length of 1.80 inches. The 450 BM case length is 1.700. You should be within the law with it.
SFLEFTY
07-31-2014, 12:34 PM
So Ohio says it HAS to be straight wall?
neohiojohn
07-31-2014, 12:58 PM
Yes. here's "The List" Legal deer hunting rifles are chambered for the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.
Remingtonman
07-31-2014, 04:29 PM
Yes. here's "The List" Legal deer hunting rifles are chambered for the following calibers: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson.
Just a quick question, will a magnum bolt face work for the .460 s&w? Im thinking about using a long action with magnum bolt face for a 460 build on a savage action since Im not legally allowed to carry the .450bm deer hunting.
bootsmcguire
07-31-2014, 06:31 PM
Just a quick question, will a magnum bolt face work for the .460 s&w? Im thinking about using a long action with magnum bolt face for a 460 build on a savage action since Im not legally allowed to carry the .450bm deer hunting.
I am going to bet not. The factory magnum heads I tested for my 444 marlin were measuring around .555" and thus left me too sloppy for proper extraction on the 444 brass which has a rim of .514". The 460 S&W has a rim of .520" so I am betting the magnum head is still going to be too sloppy for it. I took a .473" (308 sized, or 30-06 if you are going long action) and opened the face up on the lathe to .521" and it works on the 444's rim perfectly. I am betting if you opened one up to .525-.527" it would be the ticket for you.
emtrescue6
08-01-2014, 10:17 AM
Should heed my own advice, maybe. I am assuming 450BM is allowed, based on initial specs I read somewhere here. I hope they don't exclude 450BM.
Foxx....450BM should be fine....unlike OH, MI didn't limit us with a list of very specific cartridges. I am still waffling on my straight walled rifle caliber...but 450BM is certainly on my list of option. I hunt mostly in the "modern rifle zone" I am not in immediate need...YET! :)
What are the spec's on the barrel you ordered?
Foxx....450BM should be fine....unlike OH, MI didn't limit us with a list of very specific cartridges. I am still waffling on my straight walled rifle caliber...but 450BM is certainly on my list of option. I hunt mostly in the "modern rifle zone" I am not in immediate need...YET! :)
What are the spec's on the barrel you ordered?
Yeah, I rarely hunt down here any more, but when I do, I'll want a 450BM if we can use them. As I see it, it's not looking good that we will be able to do so any time soon. I might not even have a need for this thing for a while.
I went with CM at 16.5 inches and a 14 twist, I think. Can't remember the twist for sure. Whatever Boots recommends.
emtrescue6
08-01-2014, 02:11 PM
Well you'll have to give me a full report on that 450 BM when you get it and get some rounds down it Foxx!
Boots...what's the recoil like on that 450BM from a bolt gun?
bootsmcguire
08-01-2014, 09:19 PM
Foxx, it should be a 16" twist. That was the fastest readily available blank that Jim has a reliable access to and it is plenty fast enough for the 450BM velocities.
emtrescue6, I have mine in a Tupperware stock (since its cheap, light, and serves great as the truck/ATV gun I intended this for) and recoil is about the same as my 12FV 308, or like a sporter 243. I had Jim thread the muzzle for a brake, and I put one on it I built, but haven't tried it yet.
snowgetter1
08-01-2014, 10:22 PM
I shoot the 450bm in a Striker. Full house loads are about like a hot 44 mag. I have a 16" Apache barrel with a Ross brake on it. It also shoots lead loads as good as jacketed. Barrel on a rifle like shooting 20 ga slugs.
http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb465/snowgetter1/DSCN3603.jpg (http://s1207.photobucket.com/user/snowgetter1/media/DSCN3603.jpg.html)
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