Something besides AR's

[homefrontsniper]

Sks lol

[Appleseed]

.223, .223...did I stutter

[thermaler]

Well--I'm going to suggest something so far out you will laugh--but bear with me.

Now I know you want 223 but it seems to me like you like the carbine style but not wed to the idea of an AR. I just got a 16" Rossi M92 SS carbine in 44 mag--and it is by far the most fun and stylish weapon I have ever fired! I believe it is lighter than any semi-auto carbine out there--and it really tames the 44 mag cartridge for those of us who are willing to admit that after a while pounding your hands with a wheel gun hand cannon is not all that fun. I would argue that the the win model 92 lever gun IS the original AR : ) The traditional cowboy action type weapon--coupled with the challenge of shooting irons (the stock ones suck, but can be inexpensively replaced) opens a whole new world of shooting fun and challenges if you are getting jaded with the tacticool scene. And within 100 yards--with the right cartridge and shooter--can probably drop most any game on the planet.

[thermaler]

Been doing some reading and shoping, this may not be the best site to ask these questions, but it's the one I trust the member's input. I get to shoot a friends ar style rifles and found a difference in the recoil I'm guessing due to the stocks or gas venting? His full size remington hunting rifle shoots harder than the short carry carbine. They both are accurate 1-2" at 100yrds with 55gr factory loads.
Expect to go with .223 because I load for it to varmint and target shoot. Will never compete in matches other than from the farm bench out front, 100yrd-350yrds but like to see small groups.

Can go with the Ruger mini 14 and maybe have it accurized later (same total price), or get an ar style and buy or build it to shoot. Not sure if the mini 14 likes reloads as do the others. That's the only reason I might not use the mini-14.

If I understand, the upper on an ar is the barrel, gas lug and forearm, and the lower is the trigger and mag assembly? So if the barrel is say 8 twist good quality 18-20" and free floated, that's a good place to start? Second, triggers are very important but don't know why a two stage is used. I had the set trigger on my CZ and disabled it, didn't like it. Why not use a good trigger assembly instead? On a two stage, does the trigger have to be released back to cock it even in rapid fire?2 stages are an acquired taste kind of thing but also have a certain safety aspect to them. I've built and modified AR's with both 2 and single stage triggers. My basic reason reason for using 2 stage is that you do not always want a hair-trigger light pull single stage--like hunting in the woods--where an AD is possible with a light pull single stage. Because the pressure is built up gradually (with a good 2 stage) you arrive at the trigger break with a steady pressure that makes the second stage release much more controlled than you would have with a single stage with heavy pull. Kinda like the "let-off" on a compound bow. : )

[Appleseed]

Thanks Thermaler, went looking yesterday. The guy that hunts the farm is a class III smith and builds these rifles. Was able to sample 6 or so barrel/uppers and lowers in the shop. I had never paid enough attention to these rifles.

If the single stage trigger is set to 3lbs, about like the accu-trigger, is it safer? Leaning to the dpms or rock river lowers, have a barrel maker that does good work just south of here. Go with the wylde? Loading for .223 but want to shoot the "cheap" surplus too.

[thermaler]

Well--I'm no expert--here are just my opinions having built a few. I don't think it's strictly an apples to apples comparison when your talkin an AR type carbine compared to a bolt gun--though a mini-whatever is closer but still different in some respects. So comparing an accutrigger to a light pull AR whatever probably isn't a good one--because the two weapons are going to handle differently. Generally most "run of the mill" ARs come with a stock single stage trigger with a 6 lb or so pull. While a lot can be left to shooting technique--a lighter pull trigger will definitely help in tightening up your groups. For me, an AR--being a "sporting rifle" --is the kind of rifle I would more likely bring to bear quickly in a standing free-hand situation--one of the unequaled strengths of the AR type design. depending on the intended uses, it definitely helps to go to a lighter pull--I just find it a tad easier to do an AD with an AR set-up than a regular bolt-gun in shooting situations other than manicured bench or range shooting. AR triggers can easily be adjusted with a simple spring swap--though "modular" drop in trigger group designs offer similar screw adjustments as you might find in something like an accutrigger.

Whether or not a light pull on an AR is safe really depends on a bunch of variables--but I know myself well enough that if I went wandering around in the woods or back yard dynamically shooting with anything less than 3.5 (and even that is pretty light)--sooner or later I would goof up and launch one unintentionally (that's another way of saying been there, already done that). I think you'll be fine with something like a JP which you can dial up or down in the 3 to 5 lb range. I'd recommend 4 or 4.5 as a good starting point for an AR. If you truly anticipate the majority of your shooting coming from the bench for match results--then by all means go lighter than 3 lbs--just be aware of the limitations. That's my summary of the trigger pull for AR's --but I'm sure you'll have no problem finding others who will totally disagree ; )
The wylde flavor of 223 usually means a tighter chamber and closer tolerances for everything--unless you intend on reloading in pursuit of the holy grail load I think you'll find getting sub MOA is easily achievable with a good "conventional" 223/5.56. It's tough enough just figuring out the barrel length and twist rate you want. : ) But I have no experience with wylde--so take this opinion with a healthy dose of salt.

[Appleseed]

Thanks for the advise, still have some testing to do and will try a two stage trigger.

BTW, how's the lobster harvest this summer? Have always wanted to surf fish stripers there on the coast.

[Chrazy-Chris]

Thanks for the advise, still have some testing to do and will try a two stage trigger...

FYI I think the Geisseles are pretty much the industry standard on two stage triggers. An accutrigger vs two stage is a fair comparison to how it feels from the perspective of the shooter. You have some known "slack" to pull up, then you hit the first second stage and it breaks cleanly and crisply as you continue to pull. If you're shooting for accuracy and not volume, you pull the first stage right away then squeeeeeeeze through the second stage just like you would an accutrigger. If you pull up the first stage and decide not to shoot, you simply let go, again as you would on an accutrigger, and it is spring loaded back to its starting position (like an accutrigger). On an AR if you are firing closer range and/or at a higher rate of fire, you won't even notice the first stage since you can just pull right through it.

I prefer two-stage triggers on my ARs. I have the Geissele SSA on my AR carbine and the SSA-E on my heavy-barreled AR. The SSA-E isn't quite as light as I would like for the precision-purposed AR, but is still very nice. The Geissele match grade triggers are nicer yet, adjustable, and can be pretty much as light as you want to go.