Black Hills .223 Remington New Ammunition (Red Box)

[amadjuster]

I bought a box of this today and when I inspected it I found the case heads were stamped "WCC 06" with the NATO crosshair is a circle, meaning this is 5.56 MM. I called Black Hills and they told me that they ran out of their brass and used military brass from Winchester that was primed, crimped, and sealed. They assured me they loaded this to commercial specs. I asked them how was I to know that when the case stamp said it was WCC 06 NATO meaning it is loaded to a higher pressure than on .223 Remington. Also, I will have to swage the cases and be careful reloading since military brass is thicker than military brass. In other words, they are not selling what the box shows. I have used Black Hills in the past and it is wonderful. That is the Black Hills commercial brass marked Black Hills. If this stuff blows up, there is no way to prove it is theirs, as it shows it is Winchester. If I wanted remanufactured ammo, I would have bought it and for less money. If I wanted NATO ammo, I would have bought it, or maybe I did. This is not right. Now I cannot take this stuff back because they don't refund on ammo. What the hell happened to integrity and honesty!!

Have any of you folks dealt with the Black Hills people?

[hotbrass]

Blackhills are one of the best.

If they say it is .223 spec ammo, then that is what you have.

I think they might have a disclaimer about you reloading their ammo, like all the ammo manufactures. So you should already know that they dont expect you to reload it.

I dont want you to hurt yourself pulling the trigger. So you better send it to me so I can dispose of it properly. ;D

[amadjuster]

The problem is the ammo in the box is not what is shown on the box. I thought Black Hills was better than that.

[hotbrass]

Didnt you say you talked to Black Hills? Take it up with them. They gave you a perfectly good explanation and told you it was .223 spec ammo, so either send it back to them or shoot it.

[amadjuster]

I received a call back on this and was told due to the "shortage" of ammunition, they used different brass and now believe they should have waited until they had the proper commercial brass, in order to avoid this very confusion.

As far my as taking anyone's word for anything, or getting a "reasonable" explanation about anything, I didn't just roll into town on a turnip wagon. By the way, you just explained how Obama became President!

[hotbrass]

Sounds to me like Black Hills is treating you right, which I would expect from Black Hills as they are one of the best.

So what are you going to do now?

[amadjuster]

Yea, after I called them on it.

I'll wait and see what happens. I am not as trusting as some folks.

This is still not commercial brass and may or may not be their ammunition. Their credibility is a little shaky with me right now so we will wait and see.

[Bad Water Bill]

Since you obviously do not have any knowledge of ammo here is a short lesson.

A brass cartridge holds the powder. Each brass mfgr uses slightly different dimensions within SAAMI specifications. Military brass is a little heavier as their ammo is loaded to higher pressure levels. Because the brass is heavier and SAAMI controls the outside dimensions internal capacity will be reduced. If you weigh a WCC shell and write the weight on paper, then fill the shell with water and weigh it again. Write this figure above the empty figure. Now subtract the empty weight from the water filled weight and you know the internal capacity. With the capacity and bullet weight known all powder mfgrs provide safe powder charges to maintain safe pressure loads.

This system has been used for OVER 100 years and obviously proved safe.

Black Hills has produced some of the most accurate ammo on the market for quite a few years. Most of the time they have been able to have the brass mfgr put their name on the head of the shell. With the shortage of components lately it is no surprise that they are using WINCHESTER CARTRIDGE COMPANY brass mfgd in the year 2006. Millions of rounds are loaded each year using military brass either new or once fired.

I have many rounds of WCC 63 brass and it STILL is working great. With a military stamp we know the approximate age of your ammo. How old is the Federal, Remington, Lapua, etc that you bought last month? How many months, years did it sit at the mfgr, distributors or Company storage areas before it reached the store shelves?

Over the last 40+ years I have been reloading I prefer brass that has a military head stamp for the safety factor. With all of this information I would think you would prefer a company that goes the extra mile to provide an extra measure of safety for you.

Lesson over

[Mad Dog]

Since you obviously do not have any knowledge of ammo here is a short lesson.


Please keep it civil Bill, no need to insult anyone around here.

Cockyness is unbecoming a good sportsman.

[hotbrass]

Thanks Bad Water Bill!

That is great information for everyone.

Black Hills is a first class company and is an excellent source of affordable ammo for civilian and military customers.

[Balljoint]

Just received from MidWay two boxes of 223 red box Black Hills Ammo, checked the head stamps all were BHA 223