slam fire what the heck?

[pheasant16]

Out shooting prairie dogs. Model 12 FLVSS, one of the first short action ones that was made, many years ago. Always have used it as a single shot, with the scope lined up, so stray shot isn't a concern, but a little unnerving to have your finger out of the trigger guard, close the bolt and hear a boom.

This rifle has many thousands of rounds through it, so would imagine something is weak, worn, or dirty. Bolt has never been stripped. Trigger is factory also. When I bought it new, a smith said to give it about 500 rounds and it would smooth out nice. He didn't want to stone it due to the hardened engaging surface only. It did, and settled into a nice clean about 2# pull with no creep. (Never had that patience with a deer rifle, opted to swap triggers on them)

The safety was off at the time, but after it fired, raised the bolt to remove the empty, so didn't check to see if the sear had been released.(thought didn't occur to me until I'd already lifted the handle)

Sent a letter to Savage, looking for a factory authorized service center in ND. They take time off mid July, got a canned letter saying they'd respond after July 14. No reply yet.

Reckon I could replace the rifle, but with 15,000 plus rounds through it; it still shoots just fine, and know it like an old friend, so fixing sound better than learning new.

Ideas where to start?

[bootsmcguire]

If you have one of the older triggers it is probably a 3-screw since you have the FLVSS. It may be getting worn and just need to be adjusted. Click on this LINK (http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?130-Factory-3-Screw-Trigger-Adjustment-Procedures) for a steb by step instructional on how to do that.

[olddav]

I don't know but I think that I would pull the action out of the stock and inspect the trigger mating surfaces. Also check the spring, it may have worked loose.

[bootsmcguire]

Yup check the spring, and with a 3 screw if it did wear just a bit, adjusting the sear engagement screw will probably help.

[BillPa]

Ideas where to start?

Well, considering it's age and has probably hasn't been out of the stock since you own it I'd start with a bottle of Ronson lighter fluid.

Pull the action out of the stock and start dumping the lighter fluid on the trigger group and sear. Don't be cheap, use the entire bottle. As your dumping the fluid on work the trigger and sear and keep on dumping until all the years of oil, crud and corruption is flushed out.

After your happy try it a few times out of the stock just make sure the stock isn't contacting the sear. Don't go dump'n oil on it, the LF leaves a light fine oil behind perfect for triggers.

If it works I just saved you 35-50 bucks and a trip to the gunwreaker, what I used to charge to clean a gooked up trigger.

Bill

[bootsmcguire]

great idea Bill, I'll keep that one in my head for the future.

[BillPa]

great idea Bill, I'll keep that one in my head for the future.

It ain't my idea, it's Arnold Jewell's. :p

[pheasant16]

Good Morning All
Thanks for the quick replies. Will buy a bottle of lighter fluid (first time in my life at age 55) and try the above. You're right Bill, it's never been out of the stock.
Just out of curiosity, I didn't even think about the screws loosening as all the Savage triggers I have replaced have had some form of (for lack of a better term) loc tite or
finger nail polish to hold the adjustments. The mating surfaces were my first thought.
Stay with me guys, I have to work through this; so if the surfaces have worn a little (in case the lighter fluid isn't the answer), by increasing the sear engagement this should alleviate the concern?
Wouldn't I now have a heavier trigger? I guess if this would be the issue, I'd just as soon replace it with an aftermarket Rifle Basix or Timney. Have used them both and had good luck.

[bootsmcguire]

It may increase, it may not, depends on how its wore. Since adjusting is free, I would give it a try (after the lighter fluid) and just see. If it does make it heavier, then you may need to either have them stoned my a GS or go ahead and replace with a RB or Timney.

[pheasant16]

Hey Guys

The response I got from Savage was from a very nice customer rep stating it is most likely a faulty primer. She does state if I want to send it back to Savage they would look at it but warned me they would be using factory loads. Pretty sure the techs would find something like what you all stated above, so before I proceed to sending it to them will do as suggested in the forum. All I wanted was a factory certified service center somewhere close to ND.

Glad I have you guys to bounce things off. Best few bucks one can spend every year. OK Jim... there's the plug! LOL

[bythebook]

Well, considering it's age and has probably hasn't been out of the stock since you own it I'd start with a bottle of Ronson lighter fluid.

Pull the action out of the stock and start dumping the lighter fluid on the trigger group and sear. Don't be cheap, use the entire bottle. As your dumping the fluid on work the trigger and sear and keep on dumping until all the years of oil, crud and corruption is flushed out.

After your happy try it a few times out of the stock just make sure the stock isn't contacting the sear. Don't go dump'n oil on it, the LF leaves a light fine oil behind perfect for triggers.

If it works I just saved you 35-50 bucks and a trip to the gunwreaker, what I used to charge to clean a gooked up trigger.

Bill

Good idea Bill I have done something like this, but used Brakeclean then a very light spray of Break-free . Would the lighter fluid be better than this ?

[BillPa]

Hey Guys

The response I got from Savage was from a very nice customer rep stating it is most likely a faulty primer.

Lord, please save us!

If it went boom on the slam fire obviously the primer wasn't too awfully bad! :p

"but warned me they would be using factory loads" ? Honestly? Like that would make a difference. If the firing pin struck the primer it wasn't, I repeat, wasn't the ammo!

Geesssh!!!

Too bad you don't live closer, I'd fix it for ya.....FREE!!!

Bill

"

[gotcha]

I don't think I've ever found fault with BillPa's advise. But SERIOUSLY after 15,000 rounds through your rifle you really need to disassemble your entire bolt and give it a complete scrub. Soak all parts in Kroil or any good penetrating fluid over night and let the fun begin!!!!

[pheasant16]

Yah; the response from Savage Arms really didn't instill a feeling of confidence in the reply. Thought you all would get a chuckle from it.

I did the lighter fluid flush today, the action was still amazingly clean. With my old presbyopic eyes all surfaces still look square and sharp. I slammed the bolt hard as I could a couple dozen times, no sear release. (It did it once before I cleaned in maybe a couple dozen pre clean cycles). I reassembled it, then slammed the bolt hard as I could a couple dozen more times with no accidental releases. Going to go run a hundred rounds or so through it or so to see if I want to mess with the adjusting screws.

Fingers crossed this was it.

Thanks again for the ideas

[pheasant16]

Hey like the price of your offer! ;)

Son in law flies for Delta out of LGA. Could see if he could somehow take it with him some time should it need further TLC.

Yah, the reload I shoot is 24gr Varget with a 50gr Speer TNT, so not even a hot load. Dunno where the faulty primer comment
would come from, other than a business grad responding with little product knowledge. :\

[BillPa]

the action was still amazingly clean. With my old presbyopic eyes all surfaces still look square and sharp.
Thanks again for the ideas

Looks can be deceiving. That curd will find it's way in to places you can't see unless you rip the whole mess apart. That's the purpose of the lighter fluid, its thin enough to get into those places, dissolve any old dried oil and flush it and the curd out. I've used nothing else on my triggers since Bob Pease(RIP) suggested using it 30 or so years ago.

Bill

[big honkin jeep]

I had an incident like you described where the rifle would fire on pushing the safety to the on position and when I checked it I found that the firing pin also dropped on bolt closure if the safety was already off. (this was after making trigger adjustments and not locking down the screws.) I re adjusted the trigger put a little more arch in the spring (I am using a lighter spring) and locked everything down with clear nail polish.

If there have never been any adjustments of any kind to your rifle, I would guess you had a piece of crud on the trigger surface at the sear or that some gunk may have gotten into the bolt stop sear combo preventing full reset of the sear. Please check and make sure you have plenty of arch in the trigger return spring (The flat one on the side of the trigger) as this can cause what you describe. I cringe every time I hear someone say to remove tension from this spring with the screw because too many people don't realize the importance of having an arch in it. many including the tutorial mistakenly call it a "pull weight screw" and it is not. It is the Trigger Return Spring.
I would probably follow the previously posted link and re adjust per the instructions EXCEPT for the SPRING LABELED TRIGGER PULL WEIGHT. This is actually NOT a pull weight spring but a trigger return spring and is very important in proper seating/resetting of the sear. It should have a noticeable arch in it to function properly. The one in the pic is adjusted until it is flat and in my book and experience is an absolute No No for a safe rifle. This is actually where my trigger adjustment went wrong. I much prefer a lighter spring made from .043 music wire with a decent arch in it.
Also if you doused it with lighter fluid the thread locker/nail polish may be gone and need to be replaced to keep recoil from making unwanted adjustments.

Stay safe BHJ

[LHitchcox]

It may have very well been a high primer, but a wise man will confirm every aspect of the trigger is clean and properly adjusted before loading live ammo again. Has the OP been able to duplicate the slam fire with the rifle unloaded?

[pheasant16]

It may have very well been a high primer, but a wise man will confirm every aspect of the trigger is clean and properly adjusted before loading live ammo again. Has the OP been able to duplicate the slam fire with the rifle unloaded?

I cycled it a couple dozen times and did manage to get it to release once. After the lighter fluid flushes I tried in earnest to make it do it with no (amen) success.

I will be going out in the next week or so to find another dog town with a couple hundred rounds, however this time of year the pups are as smart as the elders, so shots are fewer in number and frequency, so figure a hundred should be a good test.

Have never cleaned primer pockets between reloads, and per your post will do a quick check of the shells I take with. Honestly never even considered this.

Thanks for another idea.

[LHitchcox]

Sounds like debris in the sear due to the fact that you could not duplicate the problem after flushing the trigger group. Keep a careful eye on it, but I believe you are good to go. Good luck to you.

Leon