IS .223 AI easier on brass than standard .223?

[Pastprime]

I was reading a post here about choosing a caliber and someone said that prepping .223 brass was a pain and the OP should go with a .223 AI. And, a couple others chimed in that the AI was easy on barrels. Since I've never had anything in AI I have to ask; Why would prepping AI brass be easier and looks like the AI has a sharper shoulder and a slightly blown out body so if the powder capacity is a little greater how does that help barrel life. I'm looking at getting a Savage for my next centerfire since I sold all of mine a couple years ago. 99% of my shooting will be done from the bench and I really enjoyed working up the most accurate load for whatever rifle I had. Looking to get back to that.

Hank

[cranebird]

The steeper shoulder angle is less likely to allow the brass to stretch so you will not have to trim the brass as often with the Ackley Improved.

[Pastprime]

The steeper shoulder angle is less likely to allow the brass to stretch so you will not have to trim the brass as often with the Ackley Improved.

OK, I understand now, thanks. Is the AI inherently more accurate than the standard .223 or does it just get shot in more accurate rifles?? I did see a BVSS the other day at the range in .22-250 AI and the rounds just looked like they would shoot well. First AI round I've seen in person. Just because I'm old doesn't mean I know much...

Hank

[cranebird]

I was hoping someone who knew would actually chime in but I'll go out on a limb and guess since I am in the same boat as you,I don't know much but I never stop trying to learn... The extra powder capacity shouldn't necessarily effect the barrel life a whole lot. The .223 Rem has good barrel life so if the extra 2.5 gr or so of powder gained from the Ackley Improved version reduces it slightly, it still should not be a problem.

[foxx]

I don't think barrel life is any different. What was said about barrel life was that, while fire-forming brass, the ,223AI shoots virgin .223 brass just fine, nearly as accurate as it will once it is formed. Therefore you are not wasting shots when fire-forming. (Feel free to start load development even while fire-forming brass, or make useful practice time.) If shots while fire-forming were not accurate, you would have reason to say you are wearing out your barrel for no purpose other than making brass. That's not the, case, however.

[foxx]

Also, I don't think any AI inherently more accurate than the standard. Some might be if they happen to prefer slightly hotter loads.

I am a firm believer in AI's , have a 260AI and am quite certain AI's are simply better for case life and prep, ( as already stated) and potentially faster, certainly "cooler", but not more accurate.

I have read they don't feed well/ reliably from magazines. The shoulder is a bit too sharp/abrupt/steep.

[gotcha]

I agree w/ Foxx, AI's most useful in single shots. Easy enough to put a single shot follower in your mag. fed. If you enjoy load development think about a 7.5 or 8 twist throated for 70+ grain bullets for a wider variety of load development challenges. With heavy/sleek bullets you can extend your effective range to 600yds. with the .223AI.

[n4ue]

All the above are excellent tips. I have rechambered a couple of Axis rifles recently into some "Improved" versions, just because....
For a great explaination of std and AI chamberings, go to 6mmbr.com. You will read that ol' PO himself really didn't think the 243 AI was going to be worthwhile, initally. I guess he was quite impressed in the increase in case life. The 243 has a rep as a real case stretcher.

I recently redid a new Heavy bbl Axis in 243 to 243 AI. Now, I' thing about getting a new HB in 22-250 and AI-ing that....even though I already have 3 great shooting factory 22-250s. The Axis rifles are just really, really fun to work on......

ron

[bootsmcguire]

I can share what I know as I have had a few AI's so far. Brass life is increased dramatically unless you really "hot rod" your loads (but running anything to close to the ragged edge will kill brass, just ask Scope Eye, LOL) and in my experience it has been up to 5x's added life in many cases with almost no trimming. I prefer to neck size my AI cases and FWIW I use the Lee Collet Dies whenever I can.

As for feeding, yes the sharper shoulder can make it an issue, but I have found this to only be a real issue with the older stagger feed magazines. I have had good luck feeding from the centerfeed magazines. Good enough that I would say I can't really notice a difference between the AI and the Standard rounds.

[gotcha]

One more tip on AI cases............. DON'T trim prior to fire forming. Fire cases at least twice before trimming then trim all to the length of the shortest case. Unless you have just a few REALLY short cases. Let common sense prevail.

[Luke45]

If your going to custom tailor
Your handloads to a specific
Rifle, and not shoot them in any other gun anyway, you may as well go the ackley route.

Just fireform and neck size,
Can't get much easier than that.
No lube, barely any trimming, ect

[bootsmcguire]

Just fireform and neck size,
Can't get much easier than that.
No lube, barely any trimming, ect

Just to clarify, some neck sizing dies (like the Hornady universal neck sizers for example) do require the neck to be lubed. I believe Luke45 is referring to the Lee Collet Dies (LCD), which is what I would recommend also. For the AI cases all you need is a LCD Set for the parent and then I add on a Redding Body Die for the AI case for bumping shoulders when needed (which seems to be hardly ever) and you are set to go.

[Flyndutchman]

So, can you use the standard Lee 223 collet die to size the 223 AI cases? And then what do you use to seat bullets? Interested in changing my factory 223 to the AI version and possibly get a slightly longer throat in the process. Also can you just run an AI reamer into the standard 223 chamber to do the conversion?

[bootsmcguire]

So, can you use the standard Lee 223 collet die to size the 223 AI cases? And then what do you use to seat bullets? Interested in changing my factory 223 to the AI version and possibly get a slightly longer throat in the process. Also can you just run an AI reamer into the standard 223 chamber to do the conversion?


For the dies, to seat the bullets I normally buy the Lee Deluxe Set or the Lee Collet Die Set. Both of these sets include the Lee Collet Die (LCD) and the Dead Length Seater (DLS) in the sets. Use the LCD on the cases to size the neck, there is enough room in the die body to clear the extra shoulder of the AI case. To seat your bullets use the DLS as instructed in the directions regardless of being the standard or AI case. There is tons of room inside this die for the shoulder to clear.

With the reamer, no you cant just run it in there. You must set back the barrel just a tad and then ream otherwise it will not be a true AI chamber. The AI chambers have the neck shoulder junction set back about .004" vs the parent cartridge. This allows the standard brass to "crush fit" in the AI chamber and fireform correctly and safely. If you just run in the reamer, your chamber will be long and won't crush fit and then you will have to treat it like a true wildcat and seat your bullets to jam in the lands and fireform and then you may need to adjust your dies for the longer chamber and it just gets more complicated than it is worth.

Send your barrel down to Jim at Apache Gunworks (http://www.apachegunworks.com) and he will do it right and at a great price. Tell him Boots sent ya.

[cranebird]

I have to lube the neck the first couple times running the fire formed cases through the Lee collet die or else the expander pin sticks and even pulls out of the die unless you lube it .After the 2nd reload, the cases don't require the lube anymore , maybe I've backed off too much on the charge for fire forming. I was at 23.5 gr of RL-10X with a 50 gr bullet. Now I use 22.2 gr of IMR 3031 with a 53 gr bullet which is almost as accurate when fire forming the brass.

[acemisser]

interesting indeed...

[justdave]

I have a 260 and a 223 improved. I prep the brass the same as any other cartridge. I have observed very little case growth , I usually trim after 3 loadings. I also run both with warm loads and the primer pockets are loose after 4-5 loadings so, I don't really get longer case life. The only advantage I've seen is just picking up a little extra velocity. I also enjoy working up accurate loads and frequently borrow a rifle from a friend to see what I can do with it.

[cranebird]

I think the .223 Ackley improved are inherently accurate, due to extended powder capacity.Maybe its because Boots sent me ! I don't know.

[n4ue]

I have a few AI calibers. I enjoy them a LOT.
I remember reading somewhere (maybe a dream?) that in addition to the fact that the AI are easier on brass, the sharper shoulder angle helps 'focus' the powder charge into the first part of the bbl after the chamber. This makes throat erosion less?

Dunno, maybe just a dream.......

ron

[gotcha]

Regarding the inherent accuracy of .223 VS. .223AI there's an interesting article @ accurate shooter under ".223 / .223AI cartridge guide" Where a good shootin' .223 Rem was reamed to .223AI and accuracy compared. Waaay down at bottom of page. Lotsa' good dope on powder, bullets, twist rates etc.