Reloading woes. Pressure too high? Pressure too low? I don't know!

[GaryB]

Did a little reloading for the 223AI and the results at the range were mediocre to bad. I was shooting loads I worked up last week and they were accurate then but not now! 25.5gr H335 with 55gr Dogtown bullets in an AI case and 25gr XMR-4064 in the same cases. Last week one hole this week just under an inch.(I think it was me, just an off day)

That wasn't so bad but this is where the trouble began. I was fire forming a bunch of FC brass and had two rounds that the primers backed out on. Pretty substantially too! Cases measure just over 1.750" and I was using 25.0gr of H335 with a 55gr bullet. (pic 1)

Then things went from bad to worse. Started firing some factory ammo and bolt lift got a little harder until the second round fired and I could lift the bolt but it would not move back. Locked up tight! Had to use a large screw driver handle to get it open by pounding on the bolt handle. I have fired this same ammo before and never had any problems.(pic 2)

This thing is about to kick my butt. I have been reloading off and on for a long time and have never had issues like this.

Signed,
Confused! :confused:


(Pic1)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/1Michele/Savage/Pic1_zpsa254c274.jpg

(Pic2)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/1Michele/Savage/Pic2_zpsd3abdf3c.jpg

[Rooster 50]

any chance you have a bad carbon ring built up in the neck area?

[scope eye]

Lets cover all bases how far are you off the lands,
and has this barrel been on or off lately, and if it has what did you use to head space it.

Dean

[Nor Cal Mikie]

My guess is that the cases were too short (brass headspace too long (not barrel) from not being formed to your chamber). Round fired, primer starts to back out before case touches bolt face.
Load the rounds with the bullet jammed "into" the lands. That way the case can form to the chamber and no chance of the primer backing out.

[GaryB]

any chance you have a bad carbon ring built up in the neck area?

I can not see a ring in the neck area, but my eyes are not the best. I'll try to check it again with another method.


Lets cover all bases how far are you off the lands,
and has this barrel been on or off lately, and if it has what did you use to head space it.

Dean

The closest to the lands was .040. Barrel has not been off since it was installed


My guess is that the cases were too short (brass headspace too long (not barrel) from not being formed to your chamber). Round fired, primer starts to back out before case touches bolt face.
Load the rounds with the bullet jammed "into" the lands. That way the case can form to the chamber and no chance of the primer backing out.

Thank you, I will do that in the future. Now that I think about it I did full length resize that brass before loading.

I have a ton of LC '11 brass; is it OK to form that with the bullets into the lands? Maybe just a starting load?

I'm still a little worried about the factory rounds, but everything else fired fine without sticking the bolt. Maybe the heat.


Thanks guys for the suggestions. Much appreciated!
Gary B.

[cranebird]

I have a ton of LC '11 brass; is it OK to form that with the bullets into the lands? Maybe just a starting load?



I have very little experience in fire forming cases but I am thinking you would want to start with at least a middle of the road charge to properly expand and fire form the brass unless the jamming to the lands provides enough pressure on its own to properly fire form the case at starting load ? I've necked down and fire formed 30-30 to 7-30 waters and found the stouter the load, the better it seemed to work for me but that may have been pure luck and at that time I did not know about crush fit or jamming to the lands. Good luck and post your results. I am watching this as I just ordered a .223AI barrel and most likely will need all the info I can get. Lol.

[GaryB]

Cranebird

I will keep you posted. It shouldn't be as hard as I seem to be making it. I'm going to start fresh with all new brass and go from there. No more junk mil surp loaded ammo!!
The only other cartridge that I've worked with that could be considered a "wildcat" is the 30 Herrett(Contender) and that was fairly straight forward. And thanks to Bob Milek there was plenty of load data available.

Gary

[cranebird]

Thanks Gary. I might have stumbled onto something for you. http://www.6mmbr.com/223rem.html . Notice the PMP case listing in the .223 Rem case weight VS. Capacity chart . It is the heaviest case weight listed.It probably will take more powder than what the round is loaded at to properly fire form to the Ackley improved case dimensions.

[dcloco]

Using a resized, standard 223 case, chamber the EMPTY brass. Is there any resistance on bolt closing? If not, your headspace is not set correctly for the AI.

But, as somebody else mentioned, leave the bullets long - slight jam in the lands - will help prevent the problems you are having. Check the headspace first though.

[GaryB]

Just finished prepping 100 LC cases and fire forming 50; NO problems. I even had a couple of groups while fire forming that were outstanding!
And, while perusing the net I came across this... http://www.eabco.com/store/reloading-supplies/p.o.-ackley-handbooks-for-reloaders-vol-i-or-vol-ii/
May be a plus for anyone shooting Ackley Improved cartridges.

Gary

[foxx]

Lot of help that is... sold out!

[GaryB]

Volume I is sold out volume II is available for $19.00. I just assumed that volume II was everything in vol I with additional info. I added volume II to the cart and it let me buy it.

[foxx]

Eh. I think its different stuff. :( but I haven't seen either one before.

[GaryB]

Eh. I think its different stuff. :( but I haven't seen either one before.

I will let you know when I get it. In the meantime, here is another source for both volumes I and II...

http://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/item_desc.php?item_id=3180

[Sawfish]

A friend of mine experienced a similar problem. He traced it to his habit of loading a cartridge in the chamber after he fired a shot while shooting prairie dogs. When the barrel was hot, and there was a lull in the shooting, the chambered cartridge was heated by the hot barrel raising pressures when it was fired. A similar problem occurs when leaving cartridges in the sun during hot weather.

[Blitzfike]

Thanks Gary. I might have stumbled onto something for you. http://www.6mmbr.com/223rem.html . Notice the PMP case listing in the .223 Rem case weight VS. Capacity chart . It is the heaviest case weight listed.It probably will take more powder than what the round is loaded at to properly fire form to the Ackley improved case dimensions.

Be careful with this, heavier cases generally have less water grain capacity and need the charge reduced by an equivalent percentage, otherwise its like adding that percentage difference to the lighter cases in their load.

Hope this doesn't confuse you. I've worked with many wildcat cartridges over the last 40+ years and if the shoulder will hold the round for proper headspace, I usually load a bottom end load for forming. If the case isn't in contact with the chamber allowing me to support it during fire forming, I will use the extended bullet trick, but with loads reduced by about 10 to 15 percent. Sometimes the case will not completely fill out the shoulder in those circumstances, and if that is the case, I will load it again, with a bottom end of the chart load to complete fire forming. I also usually anneal the case neck and shoulder before fire forming. Jim